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Topic: Rose Post Game: #6 Ohio State 48, #11 Utah 45

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Rose Bowl: #6 Ohio State (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2021, 01:32:52 PM »
The older I get and the more CFB I watch, the less convinced I am of the efficacy of this. I mean, I'm sure there's a non-zero bit of preparation, but I'm not sure it's enough to be notable.

It's a pretty common belief across CFB and sports that talent+PT=down the road success, with more PT at whatever stage more quickly moving someone along that curve.

There's probably a selection bias in my memory, but it seems like the number of "played early, was rough, ended up benefitting in a notable way down the line" stories isn't all that long, and the number of "played early, team took lumps with him, plateaued at just OK/decent" stories feels much longer. And plenty of successful guys are going in either when they earn the time or when the chance simply opens up. (I think Florida sold last year's bowl as "the start of next season" and ...)

And the "play the exciting guy now, it'll payoff" narrative seems really, really appealing. The thing you want now (seeing the player that inspires hope) is also going to lead to a longterm hope payout. It's something fans basically everywhere ask for. Now, with OSU, it's not a choice, and it's unknown, so there's no right or wrong. But I guess this is a long way of saying I'm skeptical that losing young this week means anything more than the slightest better chance of winning in the future (though I think OSU is gonna run ND regardless of if all those guys were there and played like they were supposed to).

EDIT: I didn't even answer the question. I think winning matters. Do the thing that makes the most sense to win the game in front of you. That approach will likely lead to more wins down the road.
You know the nice thing about a "we're just trying to kick the tires for next year" approach?

It's a preemptive defense mechanism for when Utah beats you by three scores :57:

Kinda like SEC teams who just aren't motivated...

MrNubbz

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Re: Rose Bowl: #6 Ohio State (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2021, 02:40:06 PM »
They haven't extended the season yet ,put down the pint 😎
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Mdot21

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Re: Rose Bowl: #6 Ohio State (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2021, 02:43:37 PM »
if it's all about NFL $$$, then Aidan Hutchinson should be done with college football

probably shouldn't have played in "the game"
"the game" may have catapulted him to #1 overall pick. B1G title on the line as well. he wasn't going to sit out. who would?

The big-time NFL Draft prospect players will play if they feel the games have meaning. B1G title on the line? National Title on the line? Yeah, those guys are gonna play for that.

A Peach Bowl or Onlyfans.com bowl trophy and cheap ring? Honestly don't think they really care.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Rose Bowl: #6 Ohio State (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2021, 02:57:41 PM »
You know the nice thing about a "we're just trying to kick the tires for next year" approach?
It's a preemptive defense mechanism for when Utah beats you by three scores :57:

Kinda like SEC teams who just aren't motivated...
It isn't like I, or even Ryan Day for that matter, have much of a choice.  The guys chose to opt out.  Ok, what we are left with is essentially next years' team so lets "kick the tires" and see how it looks.  I have no idea if Utah has anyone opting out but assuming they don't then you basically have 2021 Utah with tons of experience against 2022 Ohio State with none and if Ohio State wins that, that looks REALLY good for 2022.  
The older I get and the more CFB I watch, the less convinced I am of the efficacy of this. I mean, I'm sure there's a non-zero bit of preparation, but I'm not sure it's enough to be notable.

It's a pretty common belief across CFB and sports that talent+PT=down the road success, with more PT at whatever stage more quickly moving someone along that curve.

There's probably a selection bias in my memory, but it seems like the number of "played early, was rough, ended up benefitting in a notable way down the line" stories isn't all that long, and the number of "played early, team took lumps with him, plateaued at just OK/decent" stories feels much longer. And plenty of successful guys are going in either when they earn the time or when the chance simply opens up. (I think Florida sold last year's bowl as "the start of next season" and ...)

And the "play the exciting guy now, it'll payoff" narrative seems really, really appealing. The thing you want now (seeing the player that inspires hope) is also going to lead to a longterm hope payout. It's something fans basically everywhere ask for. Now, with OSU, it's not a choice, and it's unknown, so there's no right or wrong. But I guess this is a long way of saying I'm skeptical that losing young this week means anything more than the slightest better chance of winning in the future (though I think OSU is gonna run ND regardless of if all those guys were there and played like they were supposed to).

EDIT: I didn't even answer the question. I think winning matters. Do the thing that makes the most sense to win the game in front of you. That approach will likely lead to more wins down the road.
As you noted it isn't like I have a choice.  For that matter, Ryan Day doesn't have a choice so maybe I'm just making the best of it.  

bayareabadger

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Re: Rose Bowl: #6 Ohio State (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2021, 11:14:40 PM »
As you noted it isn't like I have a choice.  For that matter, Ryan Day doesn't have a choice so maybe I'm just making the best of it. 
That's fair. Some recent UW QB things really stand out in the genre. 

They're at four multi-year starters in a row where going in early was supposed to get things more secure down the line. And to this point, there hasn't been a real down the road payout. Graham Mertz is heading into Year 4, and getting throw to the wolves in Year 2 didn't make this year any better. The guy before him, Jack Coan, went from decidedly bad in Year 2 or highly competent in Year 3, but he was about to start a fourth year where it was all but assumed he'd have calls for his benching with a four-star behind him (he instead got hurt and ended up transferring).

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Rose Bowl: #6 Ohio State (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2021, 12:07:40 PM »
That's fair. Some recent UW QB things really stand out in the genre.

They're at four multi-year starters in a row where going in early was supposed to get things more secure down the line. And to this point, there hasn't been a real down the road payout. Graham Mertz is heading into Year 4, and getting throw to the wolves in Year 2 didn't make this year any better. The guy before him, Jack Coan, went from decidedly bad in Year 2 or highly competent in Year 3, but he was about to start a fourth year where it was all but assumed he'd have calls for his benching with a four-star behind him (he instead got hurt and ended up transferring).
I thought about it some more and came up with two more potential advantages of this:
  • Seeing next years' starters TOGETHER:  If you look, for example, and WR's for tOSU any of next years' starters that are on campus have probably played at least some so it is probably true that a little more PT in the RB is largely irrelevant to how they will perform next year.  However, they haven't played all together so this give the coaches a chance to see that.  
  • Coaches assessing and evaluating needs:  With the transfer portal being a thing, this could be very important.  For example, if some random position group has their senior starters opt out and then that position group looks just flat awful against Utah that should probably tell Ryan Day that he should hit up the transfer portal for some help at that position.  


FearlessF

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Re: Rose Bowl: #6 Ohio State (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2021, 12:10:50 PM »
also an opportunity for the coaching staff to show a little love and give some game reps to a couple players that might be thinking about jumping into the portal

I mean, if they really want them on the team next season
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

ELA

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Re: Rose Bowl: #6 Ohio State (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
« Reply #49 on: December 29, 2021, 04:59:09 PM »
I don't particularly care if guys want to protect themselves, but I still question why is it just bowls?  If Kenneth Walker was going to opt out of the bowl game, why didn't he opt out after the OSU game?  All MSU was playing for at that point was positioning for a game that didn't matter.  If you are going to opt out of the Peach Bowl, might as well have opted out of the Penn State game too.

FearlessF

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Re: Rose Bowl: #6 Ohio State (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
« Reply #50 on: December 29, 2021, 05:42:46 PM »
that's always been my question as well

why finish a reg season that isn't going anywhere

maybe they just haven't been smart enough to figure this yet?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Rose Bowl: #6 Ohio State (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
« Reply #51 on: December 29, 2021, 07:22:06 PM »
Nick Bosa?
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ELA

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Re: Rose Bowl: #6 Ohio State (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
« Reply #52 on: December 29, 2021, 08:06:06 PM »
Nick Bosa?
He at least had an injury he wasn't coming back from

Abba

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Re: Rose Bowl: #6 Ohio State (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
« Reply #53 on: December 29, 2021, 08:57:19 PM »
He at least had an injury he wasn't coming back from
I think he could've returned in late November or so, but decided to just call it.

ELA

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Re: Rose Bowl: #6 Ohio State (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2022, 01:04:16 PM »

ROSE BOWL
#6 Ohio State Buckeyes (10-2) vs. #11 Utah Utes (10-3)
Saturday @ 5:00 - Pasadena, CA - ESPN
Kyle Whittingham doesn't need to dig that deep into the film vault to see what he needs to see the recipe for his Utes.  C.J. Stroud lit Michigan up for nearly 400 yards, and Michigan still won by two touchdowns, thanks to a massive gap in the run game.  The Wolverines finished with nearly 300 yards on over 7 ypc, while Ohio State mustered just 2.1 ypc for 64 yards.  Here come the Utes, third in the nation in ypc this season, and really starting to lean heavily into that strength.  Over their last three games, they've run the ball 66.7% of the time.  Only Minnesota ran the ball a higher percentage of the time among Power 5 teams.  The Buckeyes running game cannot afford a repeat of that, with the absence of their top two receivers, and best pass blocker.  C.J. Stroud will get his yards, but he got his yards in their losses too.  When Ohio State can't run, they don't win.  I am interested to see how Jaxon Smith-Njigba looks as THE guy.  He was fantastic this year, but when teams have to also worry about a pair of guys who will be Day 1 starters in NFL next season, and the former #1 overall recruit in the country in your position room, it's a little easier to find room to operate.  This will be a great look at how this offense will look next year, but is still plenty good this year.  Speaking of that former #1 overall recruit, it's time for Julian Fleming to show it.  He's been fine, and it's not like the other Buckeye receivers have given him an opening to take advantage of.  But he has tantalizing talent, and this could be his coming out party.  There's been a lot of discussion about how much Ohio State wants to be here.  But it's not like this is the first time they've missed the playoff in the CFP era.  They've missed it half the time, and the previous three times they had to "settle" for a New Years Six, non-CFP bowl, they won.  That includes a 28-25 win over Washington in the 2018 Rose Bowl.  The slight difference here is that in those previous circumstances, their opponent was in a similar boat.  This is a program validating appearance for Utah, against a program that had to return roughly 1/3 of their ticket allotment.  Granted it would have cost the conference a CFP appearance, but if Iowa had upset Michigan, it would have given us a REAL Rose Bowl between two programs that would give anything to be there.  If Ohio State takes the way Michigan ran over them personally, they still have more talent, even with the opt outs.  If not, Utah will shorten the game, and give Ohio State a game that looks a lot like their last one.
UTAH 31, OHIO STATE 27


MrNubbz

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Re: Rose Bowl: #6 Ohio State (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2022, 01:08:17 PM »
Think you might have nailed it - unfortunately
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