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Topic: Ring of Honor

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Hawkinole

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Re: Ring of Honor
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2019, 11:23:16 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2019, 04:38:42 AM
No Haden Fry?
Interesting question. In the ring of honor, for coaches, the order would be

Howard Jones #1. Jones coached two undefeated teams to 7-0 records. Defeated Yale and defeated Notre Dame.

Forest Evashevski #2.  Coached two Iowa teams to Rose Bowl wins. Finished #2 AP in 1960, and 1958 had a mythical national championship at least with one of the services that rated teams.

Hayden Fry #3. Three Rose Bowls (three defeats). Iowa would not be where it is at today without him, i.e. a winning record nearly every season, and a plus .500 record in the Big Ten since he became coach. This is a small population state with two FBS programs making it a challenging environment to have a winning program. It's arguable. The other two had better seasons, but their impact on the program was limited to the years in which they coached. 
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Ring of Honor
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2019, 11:34:47 PM »
It's fun to imagine if those small states with two programs were consolidated into one, how that fictional program would fare.  
Iowa/ISU
Ole Miss/MSU
Kansas/KSU
Those are the 3 smallest by population with two P5-type programs


Maybe Fry wins it in '85.  Maybe Snyder has a NC at KSU.  I definitely know some years an OM/MSU combo would have been a beast.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Ring of Honor
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2019, 07:54:22 AM »
Yup, Ohio State has a huge advantage over Iowa/Iowa State, aside from being Ohio State.  Dominate recruiting in a larger state with good HS football and you field talented teams.  UGA has some advantage though there are a lot of programs right across the border, and a lot of immigrants to GA are not especially UGA fans from birth obviously.

UF is in a much bigger state but has to fend off FSU and Miami, along with poachers like UGA and Auburn etc.  I'm guessing Alabama and Auburn have been the most successful in state pairing from a smaller state, by a fair measure.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Ring of Honor
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2019, 08:21:53 AM »
CFB in KY has actually improved, since going from one P5 team to two. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Ring of Honor
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2019, 08:39:03 AM »
When Cincinnati was a P5 program, their recruiting improved a lot.  Kids who would have gone to Miami and Ohio and Akron now had a good reason to choose UC.  Fickell may have them back to playing near that same level, maybe, but with an easier slate.  UC is positioned to get an invite to the P5 (B12?).

The same happened for UL.  They had a great reason to attract kids "overlooked" by Ohio State et al.

I'm beginning to think Stoops at UK is a solid coach.  We'll see how they do this year sans some key pieces.

Missouri is an interesting team, they are "it" for that state obviously.  (I think.)  If they are pretty good they could well be 8-0 going into Athens.  

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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Ring of Honor
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2019, 08:55:25 AM »

Yeah, I forgot about Cincy's successful P5 stint. Not quite Bama-Auburn, but both OSU and UC were raking in P5 Conference Titles simultaneously there for a while. Definitely up there in the rankings of 2-P5 state runs (not including the 3+ P5 States, of course). 

Penn St and Pitt in the 70s comes to mind. All though they technically weren't in conferences. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Ring of Honor
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2019, 10:13:38 AM »
Cincy needs a larger stadium and an invite to the B12 and they would be able to field pretty solid teams often as not.  There is a lot of talent in the state and nearby that is not quite OSU level, and OSU can't sign them all anyway.

Georgia Southern used to make hay with players UGA missed back in the 1AA days.
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CWSooner

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Re: Ring of Honor
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2019, 11:28:52 AM »
When the Big 12 has talked about expansion, I have hoped that Cincinnati would be added.  WVU needs a conference partner or two in the ETZ.  Cincinnati along with Louisville or one of the non-P5 Florida schools would have been a good combo.

I don't think that WVU will like being the conference outlier over the long haul.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Ring of Honor
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2019, 11:38:09 AM »
Cincy has access to a big stadium when they need a big stadium. 

They have played OSU, Oklahoma, W Virginia, etc at the Bengals stadium over the years. 
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Ring of Honor
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2019, 01:15:49 AM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 23, 2019, 11:38:09 AM
Cincy has access to a big stadium when they need a big stadium.

They have played OSU, Oklahoma, W Virginia, etc at the Bengals stadium over the years.
Okay, but they're not moving in there permanently, and their on-campus stadium is about 5 minutes old...
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Ring of Honor
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2019, 01:17:30 AM »
Quote from: CWSooner on June 23, 2019, 11:28:52 AM
When the Big 12 has talked about expansion, I have hoped that Cincinnati would be added.  WVU needs a conference partner or two in the ETZ.  Cincinnati along with Louisville or one of the non-P5 Florida schools would have been a good combo.

I don't think that WVU will like being the conference outlier over the long haul.
If the ACC doens't take WV first, after which the XII would be in a quagmire.  Those two will, eventually, have a battle to avoid becoming obsolete.  
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Ring of Honor
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2019, 07:25:45 AM »
ACC fans dislike WVU because of "akademiks", but they are OK with UL.

CFB can be odd.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Ring of Honor
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2019, 08:20:58 AM »
Cincy is building a new soccer stadium down the street from Music Hall.  There was some concern the noise might interfere with concerts, so they did some tests.

The soccer team had been playing in Nippert, which was adequate to their needs.  But Cincy likes to build new stadia apparently.

I still think UC needs an on campus serious stadium, and Nippert is kind of hemmed in for expansion.  If they could get to say 50 K capacity, I think a P5 conference would go for them.  But may conference expansion is a done deal now.  I think there was panic back in the day.
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Hawkinole

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Re: Ring of Honor
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2019, 09:49:16 AM »
Quote from: Hawkinole on June 22, 2019, 11:23:16 PM
Interesting question. In the ring of honor, for coaches, the order would be

Howard Jones #1. Jones coached two undefeated teams to 7-0 records. Defeated Yale and defeated Notre Dame.

Forest Evashevski #2.  Coached two Iowa teams to Rose Bowl wins. Finished #2 AP in 1960, and 1958 had a mythical national championship at least with one of the services that rated teams.

Hayden Fry #3. Three Rose Bowls (three defeats). Iowa would not be where it is at today without him, i.e. a winning record nearly every season, and a plus .500 record in the Big Ten since he became coach. This is a small population state with two FBS programs making it a challenging environment to have a winning program. It's arguable. The other two had better seasons, but their impact on the program was limited to the years in which they coached.

I was thinking about this over the weekend and I think I would add Hayden Fry to the Ring of Honor. I am not sure Evy belongs there. Evy brought Iowa to the top of the mountain as a coach, and then retired at about age 39 or 40 from coaching, and as Athletic Director, was stingy with money for recruiting, and extremely difficult to work with for coaches, and that started the downward spiral of 19 consecutive years of nonwinning football for Iowa.

Meanwhile, Kirk Ferentz was a Hayden Fry assistant, who later worked as a D-I AA coach in Maine, and then for the Cleveland Browns/Ravens. Hayden Fry in a sense is responsible for, or contributed to, 40 mostly good seasons.
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