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Topic: Rich get richer

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #112 on: September 05, 2023, 01:41:37 AM »
This is the simple truth.

The NC will be won 9 out of 10 years by an SEC team. In the years that it is not won by an SEC team, there are only a handful of teams that can win. FSU, Clemson, Notre Dame, Ohio St, or Michigan.

The only SEC teams that can win are Bama, UGA, Florida, LSU, or Auburn, and now OU and Texas.

12 teams will win 96% of all future CFB national championships.


It'll be like the 70s when only bluebloods mattered.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #113 on: September 05, 2023, 01:46:22 AM »
I've lived in Florida 20+ years and I've never been to Tampa. Couldn't tell you much about it. I don't really leave South Florida.

Tampa area has IMG Academy of course, but they recruit players from all over the country.

I'm sure there are great football players all over the state in Tampa, Panhandle, Jax, and Orlando. But there is nothing like the insane concentration of elite HS football talent in South Florida anywhere else in the state, maybe even in the entire country.
I feel like Tampa-area HS football has been up-and-down the last 25 years, but don't quote me on that.  The 'name' programs, in no particular order are:
IMG (duh)
Lakeland
Tampa Catholic
Seffner Armwood
Tampa Plant
Tampa Jesuit
Bradenton Manatee
Sarasota Riverview
.
Idk who's been good lately, but those have been annual state title participants/threats.  Some REALLY good talent has come out of Armwood, Manatee, and Riverview.





“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Gigem

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #114 on: September 05, 2023, 06:56:22 AM »
Auburn isn't winning sh*t imo. Auburn got lucccccky as hell Cam Newton liked stealing laptops and his dad needed $250,000. It was a one-off fluke that just isn't going to happen again anytime soon. That team was so mid and Cam Newton was so awesome he literally carried it on his back all by himself to a title.

OU's day might've come and gone, they are going to get run through in the SEC. Won't be able to keep up with the Jonses imo. Bama was in the doldrums for 25+ years until they landed the GOAT. It's not a given they'll win forever without him. It's a small state with a small population that doesn't produce enough talent to sustain two major in-state SEC programs- Bama and Auburn.

UGA, Florida, Texas, and LSU will always have insane in-state recruiting advantages. Doesn't mean they'll always win- but whenever they have the right coach in place they're pretty much guarantee to be in it.
The reason I listed Auburn is because they’ve won one this century and played for a second. I would maybe list Oregon in there since they’ve played for the title like 2-3 times, but with this PAC thing collapsing I’m keeping them off my list. 

FearlessF

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #115 on: September 05, 2023, 07:25:06 AM »
the Trojans?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

847badgerfan

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #116 on: September 05, 2023, 07:30:01 AM »
the Trojans?
They are gonna come into the Big Ten and run roughshod over the conference.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #117 on: September 05, 2023, 10:35:47 AM »
cutting scholarships to about 75
My knee jerk reaction when I read this was to dismiss it in part because, in your post, it was lumped in with a bunch of unrealistic stuff. I also agree with @betarhoalphadelta 's post that you'd probably need roster rather than scholarship limits because scholarships are more-or-less irrelevant in the NIL era.

That said, @OrangeAfroMan 's recent post comparing the present to the 70's made me think back to this.

I think you two might be onto something. In the 70's the Buckeyes and Wolverines flat dominated the Big Ten. This was the "Big Two, Little Eight" era:
  • From 1968 through 1980 (seasons) the Big Ten rep to the RoseBowl was either Ohio State or Michigan EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
  • From 1970-1979 Michigan lost more league games to Ohio State (5) than they did to the other eight teams in the league combined (4, 2 to PU and 1 each to MN and MSU).
  • Similarly over the same decade the Buckeyes lost only one less league game to Michigan (4) than they did to the other eight teams in the league combined (5, 3 to MSU, 1 each to PU and NU).
Most people here probably already knew the above but what you may not have known is something that @OrangeAfroMan 's comment refers to. Roughly the same thing happened across the sport, it wasn't limited to the Midwest. In the 1970's the helmets dominated. Scholarship limits curtailed that so maybe we can use scholarship/roster limits to curtail that level of dominance again.


Mdot21

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #118 on: September 05, 2023, 10:38:31 AM »
They are gonna come into the Big Ten and run roughshod over the conference.
just like Penn State did right :P

USC better buy a new DC and better defensive players with NIL money before they start the 2024 season in the B1G

847badgerfan

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #119 on: September 05, 2023, 10:41:32 AM »
just like Penn State did right :P

USC better buy a new DC and better defensive players with NIL money before they start the 2024 season in the B1G
And Nebraska. :)


USC should buy Jim Leonhard. Not a great recruiter, but USC has plenty of those (and $$$).
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #120 on: September 05, 2023, 01:04:25 PM »
And Nebraska. :)


USC should buy Jim Leonhard. Not a great recruiter, but USC has plenty of those (and $$$).
USC has a built-in recruiting advantage, too. You don't spend half the school year in frigid temps and ll the coeds on campus have put on their winter coat of fat to stay warm and are dressed for a blizzard every day. 

847badgerfan

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #121 on: September 05, 2023, 01:45:10 PM »
USC has a built-in recruiting advantage, too. 
Yes, yes they do.


U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Gigem

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #122 on: September 05, 2023, 02:40:52 PM »
My knee jerk reaction when I read this was to dismiss it in part because, in your post, it was lumped in with a bunch of unrealistic stuff. I also agree with @betarhoalphadelta 's post that you'd probably need roster rather than scholarship limits because scholarships are more-or-less irrelevant in the NIL era.

That said, @OrangeAfroMan 's recent post comparing the present to the 70's made me think back to this.

I think you two might be onto something. In the 70's the Buckeyes and Wolverines flat dominated the Big Ten. This was the "Big Two, Little Eight" era:
  • From 1968 through 1980 (seasons) the Big Ten rep to the RoseBowl was either Ohio State or Michigan EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
  • From 1970-1979 Michigan lost more league games to Ohio State (5) than they did to the other eight teams in the league combined (4, 2 to PU and 1 each to MN and MSU).
  • Similarly over the same decade the Buckeyes lost only one less league game to Michigan (4) than they did to the other eight teams in the league combined (5, 3 to MSU, 1 each to PU and NU).
Most people here probably already knew the above but what you may not have known is something that @OrangeAfroMan 's comment refers to. Roughly the same thing happened across the sport, it wasn't limited to the Midwest. In the 1970's the helmets dominated. Scholarship limits curtailed that so maybe we can use scholarship/roster limits to curtail that level of dominance again.
Well, I didn't intend to say scholarships should be limited to 75, rather total players on the team should be limited.  I don't know what that number should be.  55?  65? 75?  It's kind of complicated really, but the goal should be to limit the talent that goes to the same 10 schools.  Would it really work?  Transfer portal complicates things for sure.  

70's were way before my time, I had zero interest in CFB until my freshman year in 1996.  Forgive me, but my impression is that the Big 10 was always dominated by OSU and Michigan.  I know Minnesota was a force before then, but other than the occasional Wisconsin or Michigan State it was all OSU and Michigan.  Same thing with Big 8 and OU/Nebraska.  


medinabuckeye1

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #123 on: September 05, 2023, 03:01:31 PM »

Forgive me, but my impression is that the Big 10 was always dominated by OSU and Michigan.  I know Minnesota was a force before then, but other than the occasional Wisconsin or Michigan State it was all OSU and Michigan.  Same thing with Big 8 and OU/Nebraska.
No, not really. This isn't an exact parallel with being the best due to tiebreakers, the no-repeat rule, and the longest loser tiebreaker but the Big Ten/Pac Ten Rose Bowl agreement started just after WWII for the 1946 season. In the 22 seasons from 1946-1967 here we're the Big Ten's Rose Bowl representatives (going by game year)
  • 3 Illinois, 3-0, 47, 52, 64
  • 3 Michigan, 3-0, 48, 51, 65
  • 3 Ohio State, 3-0, 50, 55, 58
  • 3 Michigan State, 2-1, 54, 56, 66
  • 3 Wisconsin, 0-3, 53, 60, 63
  • 2 Iowa, 2-0, 57, 59
  • 2 Minnesota, 1-1, 60, 61
  • 1 Northwestern, 1-0, 49
  • 1 Purdue, 1-0, 67
  • 1 Indiana, 0-1, 68
So in 22 years all 10 teams went with eight (all but UW and IU) winning at least once. Ohio State and Michigan had three appearances each which was tied for the lead but it wasn't a dominating lead as IL, MSU, and UW also had three appearances each.


The "Big Two / Little Eight" thing basically started with 1968.

Gigem

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #124 on: September 05, 2023, 03:20:16 PM »
No, not really. This isn't an exact parallel with being the best due to tiebreakers, the no-repeat rule, and the longest loser tiebreaker but the Big Ten/Pac Ten Rose Bowl agreement started just after WWII for the 1946 season. In the 22 seasons from 1946-1967 here we're the Big Ten's Rose Bowl representatives (going by game year)
  • 3 Illinois, 3-0, 47, 52, 64
  • 3 Michigan, 3-0, 48, 51, 65
  • 3 Ohio State, 3-0, 50, 55, 58
  • 3 Michigan State, 2-1, 54, 56, 66
  • 3 Wisconsin, 0-3, 53, 60, 63
  • 2 Iowa, 2-0, 57, 59
  • 2 Minnesota, 1-1, 60, 61
  • 1 Northwestern, 1-0, 49
  • 1 Purdue, 1-0, 67
  • 1 Indiana, 0-1, 68
So in 22 years all 10 teams went with eight (all but UW and IU) winning at least once. Ohio State and Michigan had three appearances each which was tied for the lead but it wasn't a dominating lead as IL, MSU, and UW also had three appearances each.


The "Big Two / Little Eight" thing basically started with 1968.
Yeah, but I'm not really talking about that far back. I'm more or less referring to the period after the 70's, even really the 80's and into the 90's.  And I'm only speaking about my own observations, mainly from watching college football shows and interacting with fans on these boards.  And, I might add really, I didn't realize the Rose bowl was such a big deal to Big 10 fans.  I knew it was considered an important bowl game, but never really considered the importance WRT conference champions like you show in your list.  Maybe because I didn't follow CFB until bowl season was already diluted and there was just so many damn bowl games that none seemed really important.  

Mdot21

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #125 on: September 05, 2023, 03:22:49 PM »
Rose Bowl was like all the B1G teams cared about until the BCS and CCG upset that apple cart a little bit and then the playoff basically destroyed the apple cart.

 

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