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Topic: Rich get richer

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2023, 07:24:07 PM »
Yeah, I almost think that also hurts the next level more.  If Ohio State wanted you, and you sat for 3 years and showed out, the NFL is drooling.  you are still an elite talent, but with less wear and tear.  If it takes you 3 years to get on the field at MSU or Purdue, you are garbage.  Those kids would rather show out than being a depth kid at a mid level P5 team.  Being a backup at OSU just means you are an elite talent farther away from the CTE kicking in
Ehhh....the games aren't the wear and tear.  4-5 days of practice takes more out of you than the game.  The game is fun.  A RB carries the ball dozens of times during the week, mostly vs air or pads, but many more times live than they do in any one game.

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

ELA

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2023, 07:26:02 PM »
They don't practice like we did in high school

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2023, 07:30:14 PM »
I reckon not.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

bayareabadger

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2023, 12:12:06 AM »
We know who the best teams are.  We always have.  But we've eliminated the randomness where Northwestern can go to a Rose Bowl because Michigan upsets Ohio State, and Northwestern doesn't have to play them.  And we've eliminated caring about even going to a January 1 bowl, or the Rose Bowl.

I love fall.  I love fall cooking.  I like Oktoberfest and pumpkin (sorry) beers.  I associate those things with college football, and thus it's all still somewhat intertwined.  But I certainly no longer love college football.  I'm not even sure I like it.  It has fallen behind the NFL and the MLB playoffs in my watching hierarchy
It's interesting, the time I was at UW or planning to attend had a blend of A. A team that made a run to being undefeated in Nov. with no business doing so, B. A couple hype cycles that fell drastically short, and C. Seasons that made it clear bowl placement was kinda secondary (teams of differing qualities kept going to the same bowls for standings reasons). And it totally short circuited my interest in begging for an undefeated rise in the polls or staring at bowl stuff. 

I ended up drawing more inward. I focus on games and season records, as well as stats and schemes I find interesting. I was at a time hooked to the poll horse race thing, but after watching mid-teams get to 5-0 and fanbases whine, I stopped caring. Win the games, assemble the record, the rest takes care of itself (or doesn't, but it only doesn't at the end). Games are good. Watching teams put together good seasons is good. The rest became window dressing, with smaller stories or fanbase neuroses being more interesting than poll position or postseason placement, at least to me. 

I suppose I count myself a little lucky that different kinds of disappointment as a student didn't lead me away from that joy. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2023, 09:15:51 AM »
NFL has a draft, a hard salary cap, and being a complete "team" game doesn't allow for one or two star players making a bad team into a contender. So there's parity. And yeah, your Browns suck because of decades of bad management.
This is incredibly frustrating. 

Consider this:
As we all know, NFL draft picks go first to the worst teams in an effort to maintain some sort of balance by giving the worst teams a jump on the best young players. When the Browns returned in 1999 they got the first pick and selected Tim Couch. In the 20-odd years since then they have only finished ahead of the hated Steelers a few times (I think three but don't care enough to go look it up). The point is that the Browns have picked ahead of the Steelers almost every year and usually WAY ahead. Despite that, if you look at Cleveland's first round picks it is a whose who of NFL busts while Pittsburgh's almost universally had successful NFL careers. 

I'm honestly not exaggerating (at least by much) when I say that the Browns might literally have been better off to make their selections by throwing darts at a wall with prospect's names rather than whatever method they actually used because you have to figure that random chance would at least occasionally work out.

Mdot21

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2023, 09:18:39 AM »
This is incredibly frustrating.

Consider this:
As we all know, NFL draft picks go first to the worst teams in an effort to maintain some sort of balance by giving the worst teams a jump on the best young players. When the Browns returned in 1999 they got the first pick and selected Tim Couch. In the 20-odd years since then they have only finished ahead of the hated Steelers a few times (I think three but don't care enough to go look it up). The point is that the Browns have picked ahead of the Steelers almost every year and usually WAY ahead. Despite that, if you look at Cleveland's first round picks it is a whose who of NFL busts while Pittsburgh's almost universally had successful NFL careers.

I'm honestly not exaggerating (at least by much) when I say that the Browns might literally have been better off to make their selections by throwing darts at a wall with prospect's names rather than whatever method they actually used because you have to figure that random chance would at least occasionally work out.
truly is an art not a science. 

Tim Couch went #1 overall. Tom Brady went in the 6th round. Crazy.

utee94

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2023, 09:20:45 AM »
truly is an art not a science.

Tim Couch went #1 overall. Tom Brady went in the 6th round. Crazy.
Yup.

And sometimes it's neither an art nor a science, but rather a crapshoot.

Cincydawg

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2023, 09:22:06 AM »
It's not totally random of course.  There is some correlaation between high draft pick and NFL success, but the exceptions stand out.

MrNubbz

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2023, 09:40:13 AM »
College football has always been heavily weighted towards the better teams.  But previously.  You lost at Missouri or Purdue or South Carolina, on a random October afternoon, no title for you.  Now there are so many chances.  You lose a regular season game, you still might get to the CCG, or backdoor into the CFP.  You give the best teams enough chances, they'll win.  And when you make the "consolation prizes" so insignificant that it doesn't matter, that's how you lose interest.  MSU's two best seasons since the CFP, they went 10-2.  One year they played Washington State in the Holiday Bowl because they had been to Florida too many times recently, and all the non-CFP bowls are equally meh.  And the other time they played Pitt on December 30 in the Peach Bowl, where the best player from both teams sat out.

We know who the best teams are.  We always have.  But we've eliminated the randomness where Northwestern can go to a Rose Bowl because Michigan upsets Ohio State, and Northwestern doesn't have to play them.  And we've eliminated caring about even going to a January 1 bowl, or the Rose Bowl.

I love fall.  I love fall cooking.  I like Oktoberfest and pumpkin (sorry) beers.  I associate those things with college football, and thus it's all still somewhat intertwined.  But I certainly no longer love college football.  I'm not even sure I like it.  It has fallen behind the NFL and the MLB playoffs in my watching hierarchy
Sadly Post of The Year!

CFB Saturdays are/were a respite from the daily grind that I found almost exhilerating. Even game discussions afterward could be stimulating. CFB seemed to embrace balance,fairplay sportsmanship - they got it right.The suits at the schools,networks and conferences however couldn't leave well enough alone - if it ain't broke don't fix it.

 IMHO things went sideways when mind numbing amounts of cash were handed to coaches - staggering hauls that no one deserves. Athletic Directors,Game Announcers,Network Wonks all dove into the pile, pretty much putting a torch to everything ELA above mentioned & embraced
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

Cincydawg

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2023, 10:19:27 AM »
I think pining for the past can be limiting, we can still enjoy the present, I think, or I do anyway (the last two seasons were pretty fun).

In this world, money drives actions (with some exceptions).  It's inevitable, no reason to blame someone for being greedy.  Like most here, given a choice I'd go back to the Olden times (maybe the 1920s...).  I enjoyed the irrationality of bowls and rankings and MNCs.  Most humans want structure and certainty, a la NFL.  And there is the money.

Very clearly, CFB is being NFLized, and that will continue.  I'd guess most 30 year old fans think it's for the best.

Mdot21

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2023, 10:20:07 AM »
Yup.

And sometimes it's neither an art nor a science, but rather a crapshoot.
crapshoot is probably a better word for it.

Mdot21

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2023, 10:21:57 AM »
I think pining for the past can be limiting, we can still enjoy the present, I think, or I do anyway (the last two seasons were pretty fun).

In this world, money drives actions (with some exceptions).  It's inevitable, no reason to blame someone for being greedy.  Like most here, given a choice I'd go back to the Olden times (maybe the 1920s...).  I enjoyed the irrationality of bowls and rankings and MNCs.  Most humans want structure and certainty, a la NFL.  And there is the money.

Very clearly, CFB is being NFLized, and that will continue.  I'd guess most 30 year old fans think it's for the best.
I'm with you. I like all the changes because it benefits the player. At the end of the day that's all any fan should care about. The players.

Not about to be one of those "get off my lawn" or "back in my day" dudes. Different eras have different set of circumstances, different rules. Things change, grow, evolve. That's life.

Cincydawg

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2023, 10:28:42 AM »
I don't know that these changes benefit most players.  You have this 85 man roster, often larger at home, and many never play a down.  Some get to play a few downs in a game, get sparing recognition, no NIL, take their lumps, some at least have scholarships but that hasn't changed.  They could portal, but then what?  To get PT they'd have to go to Ball State.

Some players obviously benefit financially, and can leap ship.  But some end up largely forgotten perhaps with lingering physical injuries.


utee94

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Re: Rich get richer
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2023, 10:31:13 AM »
I'm with you. I like all the changes because it benefits the player. At the end of the day that's all any fan should care about. The players.

I hear what you're saying, but is the game for the players, or is it for the fans?

If it's for the players, then they should all be fine with playing in front of nobody but their parents, in some back sandlots near the exit of the girls' gym.  Right?  And they should be fine with zero compensation of any kind, since the game is just for the players.  Right?

Except that's not how it works.  That's not how ANY of this works.

Without the fans there's no money to distribute to the coaches and players, there's no talk of NIL or "NFLization" of the sport.  There's no problems at all.  Line up your 11 best against the 11 best from some school a couple miles away, let the parents watch, and call it a day.

 

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