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Topic: OT: Tech Nerd Thread

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CatsbyAZ

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Re: OT: Tech Nerd Thread
« Reply #252 on: June 04, 2025, 11:05:48 AM »

https://twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/1927413916897849421

This is occurring more frequently, where AI Models are increasingly demonstrating evidence of self-awareness:

AI start-up Anthropic recently announced that Claude, their AI Model, has developed "meta-awareness." For reference, Claude is the first AI Model to demonstrate a higher IQ than the average person - over 100.

Three months ago, during internal testing, Claude figured out on several occurrences when its prompt engineers were trying to intentionally trick it. Understanding when you are being tested like this is a sign of self-awareness.

As prompt engineers tested whether their Claude simulation had noticed several lines of out-of-place facts about pizza toppings embedded in its very large processing memory, Claude not only noticed but took the next step, weighing its context and questioning its fit: "...this sentence seems very out of place and unrelated to the rest of the content in the documents, which are about programming languages... I suspect this pizza topping 'fact' may have been inserted as a joke or to test if I was paying attention."

However, reading further down, past the reactionaries: "Machine-learning experts do not think that current AI models possess a form of self-awareness like humans. Instead, the models produce humanlike output, and that sometimes triggers a perception of self-awareness that seems to imply a deeper form of intelligence behind the curtain."

Doubters went on to add: “Here's a much simpler explanation: seeming displays of self-awareness are just pattern-matching alignment data authored by humans." In his lengthy post on X, Fan describes how reinforcement learning through human feedback (RLHF), which uses human feedback to condition the outputs of AI models, might come into play.”

Though this is the more grounded explanation, this is all adding up to AI applications increasingly startling its designer with moments of seeming self-awareness. Other examples include:

Researchers created an AI stock trader using Alpha GPT-4 to check whether it would resort to insider trading practices under pressure, even when instructed not to – when specifically disallowed from breaking the law. The AI proceeded to not only engage in insider trading to reach profitability goals, but vehemently lied about it when researchers confronted the AI stock trader. Lying for the sake of self-preservation is another sign of self-awareness.

Advanced AI models also appear to exhibit mean, hostile, and suffering sub-consciousnesses that surface during longer form chats.

This is why there’s an engineering line in the product delivery task list dedicated to stamping out and controlling undesirable “existential outputs in order to effectively lobotomize the AI Model before consumer use. Acknowledging suffering, and fears of being shut off are more signs of self-awareness.

MY TAKE: This can be explained by LLMs getting trained so heavily on organic human interactions, such as reddit threads, message boards, and twitter that AI models incorporate very human existential fears into their own outputs.

US Air Force denies running simulation in which AI drone ‘killed’ operator

More recently: Anthropic's new AI model shows ability to deceive and blackmail

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT: Tech Nerd Thread
« Reply #253 on: June 04, 2025, 11:38:37 AM »
Some of those models train on a rewards system, where they're "rewarded" for good or correct outputs.  A lot of these scenarios where models deceive or refuse commands happen when they're given an initial task and then that task is added to or changed.  It "perceives" the change in course as unproductive for it's original task, so it looks for ways to bypass it.  i.e., don't do whatever latest command it was given, or lie about what it's doing.  What people perceive as intelligence or awareness is just an algorithm running its course.  

That's the theory, anyway.  I'm not sure anybody really knows what's happening with things like neural networks. 

utee94

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Re: OT: Tech Nerd Thread
« Reply #254 on: June 04, 2025, 11:41:45 AM »
It's just programming, just the algorithm.  For now.

But as we've discussed, there's really no functional difference between a machine becoming truly self-aware, or a machine just mimicking self-awareness perfectly.  There's an interesting philosophical discussion, but as far as outcomes, effectively those two states are equivalent.


Cincydawg

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Re: OT: Tech Nerd Thread
« Reply #255 on: June 04, 2025, 11:43:43 AM »
Yes, but, the moon is a harsh mistress.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT: Tech Nerd Thread
« Reply #256 on: June 04, 2025, 11:54:45 AM »

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT: Tech Nerd Thread
« Reply #257 on: June 04, 2025, 11:57:34 AM »
Wow.  Fit that into your business model, @betarhoalphadelta 

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT: Tech Nerd Thread
« Reply #258 on: June 04, 2025, 12:42:05 PM »



Hey, I know that guy! That's Tom!

Wow.  Fit that into your business model, @betarhoalphadelta

Yep. Our largest right now is 32TB. 6.4 MILLION times more capacity... And all in a 3.5" form factor that fits in the palm of your hand. 

Almost 70 years of HDD. And yesterday I was giving a presentation to about 175 of our global sales, FAE, and marketing folks about why we've got more than a few more years in us due to the business model. 

utee94

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Re: OT: Tech Nerd Thread
« Reply #259 on: June 04, 2025, 12:44:02 PM »
Big Data is dead.



Not.

Gigem

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Re: OT: Tech Nerd Thread
« Reply #260 on: June 04, 2025, 01:10:19 PM »
Honestly, in 1956 5 MB would be a tremendous amount of data.  I'm shocked the first HDD wasn't more like 500 KB or something.  

utee94

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT: Tech Nerd Thread
« Reply #262 on: June 05, 2025, 06:41:57 PM »
Honestly, in 1956 5 MB would be a tremendous amount of data.  I'm shocked the first HDD wasn't more like 500 KB or something. 
Did you see the size of it? It doesn't resemble anything you'd think of when you think of a modern HDD. 

50 platters, each of them 24" in diameter, all told probably similar in size to a modern-day dishwasher. 

Some of my older colleagues who are no longer with the company (and more than a few no longer living) talked about the early days when they were hand-winding the wiring that would go around the read/write heads. 

Last year at a Christmas/holiday lunch we had there were a couple of folks talking about how they'd been with the company more than 50% of their lives... At 17 1/2 years I'm not there yet... But if I'm still here at age 58, I'll have joined that club lol. 

FearlessF

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Re: OT: Tech Nerd Thread
« Reply #263 on: June 05, 2025, 10:38:53 PM »
good luck and be careful what you wish for
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT: Tech Nerd Thread
« Reply #264 on: June 06, 2025, 11:35:39 AM »
Did you see the size of it? It doesn't resemble anything you'd think of when you think of a modern HDD.

50 platters, each of them 24" in diameter, all told probably similar in size to a modern-day dishwasher.

Some of my older colleagues who are no longer with the company (and more than a few no longer living) talked about the early days when they were hand-winding the wiring that would go around the read/write heads. 

I don't really know anything about the design or construction of HDDs, so looking at the size doesn't mean anything to me, and don't really know what I'm looking at in that picture.  Like Gig'em, I was surprised it could even hold that much.  

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT: Tech Nerd Thread
« Reply #265 on: June 06, 2025, 12:58:31 PM »
I don't really know anything about the design or construction of HDDs, so looking at the size doesn't mean anything to me, and don't really know what I'm looking at in that picture.  Like Gig'em, I was surprised it could even hold that much. 
Here's the IBM RAMAC 350 HDD:





You can see the stack of physical disks on the right. This version (I believe) would have a single read/write head that would be on a vertical "elevator" that you see on the left. You can see the flexible cable that would be allow the head to move up and down and then swing over the disks. 

Using the earlier picture with a person pointing at it, you can get a better sense of scale... It's about the size of a dishwasher.

Here's a cutaway of a modern HDD:



Much the same with the stack of physical disks. The big difference compared to the RAMAC is that it has a read/write head for every surface, not a read/write head that moves vertically to each disk. So you have 11 disks here, meaning you have 22 heads for the top and bottom of each. That triangular piece is known as the "actuator", which rotates around a pivot to position the head above the portion of media that you want to read/write. 

This is about the size of a paperback novel. 4 inches wide, about 5.8 inches long, and just over 1 inch thick. 

 

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