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Topic: Ranking CFP era performance

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Cincydawg

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Re: Ranking CFP era performance
« Reply #112 on: March 28, 2023, 03:18:48 PM »
The 1950s were pretty dim for UGA, but your decade would be 1947-1957, which was pretty bad anyway.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Ranking CFP era performance
« Reply #113 on: March 28, 2023, 03:35:05 PM »
I have a theory that I think explains Ohio State's consistency:

LOCATION.  

Specifically, location relative to recruits.  

Ohio isn't the strongest recruiting area in the country but it is a very fertile recruiting area and the strongest one that only has one major school.  Florida and Texas are both stronger but they also have UF/FSU/Mia and UT/aTm/OU*.  Additionally, the stronger recruiting areas also generally have more nearby schools making inroads.  Obviously Michigan and Notre Dame and to a lesser extent Penn State get some talent out of Ohio but when you look at Florida the competitors in border states include Georgia Georgia Tech (more historical than current), Alabama, and Auburn plus a bunch more not much further.  It is the same with Texas, not only do the Longhorns have to compete with aTm, they also have the Sooners, the Huskers, and a slew of other teams in their backyard poking around.  

*Yes, I know that Oklahoma isn't actually IN Texas but if you look at their roster you wouldn't know it.  Remember that Dallas is half way between Austin and Norman so a whole lot of Texas kids grow up closer to Oklahoma Memorial Stadium than DKR.  

I think that creates a REALLY high "floor" for Ohio State football because even when the Buckeyes aren't all that great, they still have a boatload of talented local kids who grow up as Ohio State fans so the talent never really gets all that bad.  

On the other hand, Ohio State has less room to grow than some of the other schools for two reasons:

  • There isn't much to pick up locally.  Unlike say Florida which can muscle out FSU and Miami and become UBER-talented, the Buckeyes don't have a major local competitor so when they get stronger . . . there isn't much to pick up.  
  • There isn't much in the way of nearby fertile recruiting territory to expand into.  Western PA is pretty strong but Ohio State gets a decent share of that even when they aren't all that good.  The rest of PA isn't very strong.  Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky, and West Virginia are all relatively weak (compared to Florida, Texas, California, Ohio anyway).  

Compare Ohio State and Alabama under my theory outlined above:
When they falter:
Alabama gets hit hard.  They lose local kids to their instate competitor, Auburn.  Additionally, there are LOTS of local-ish  helmets and near-helmets that swoop in to pick off Bama HS talent (the Florida Schools, UGA, LSU, TN).  Finally, the nearby OOC kids lose interest and go to other nearby schools.  

Ohio State doesn't get hit nearly as hard.  Their strongest instate competitor is probably Cincy at least right now but they are nowhere close to what Auburn is.  The Buckeyes do lose more often to Notre Dame, Michigan, and Penn State when they are faltering but that is it.  On a down-cycle the situation isn't nearly as dire in Columbus as it is in Tuscaloosa.  

When they shine:
Alabama has lots of room to grow.  There is a ton of talent in neighboring Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi plus they can muscle out Auburn to take almost all of the local talent.  As Bama's star burns brighter they get a larger share of that instate and nearby talent and you end up with uber-talented Bama squads.  

Ohio State has LOTS less room to grow.  The talent in PA, MI, IN, KY and WV pales in comparison to the talent in Alabama's neighboring states and there aren't any major local schools to muscle out to begin with.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Ranking CFP era performance
« Reply #114 on: March 28, 2023, 03:36:27 PM »
The 1950s were pretty dim for UGA, but your decade would be 1947-1957, which was pretty bad anyway.
My decade would be whatever was the worst.  

I didn't just do 1927-1936 then 1937-1946, I did them all:
  • 1927-1936
  • 1928-1937
  • 1929-1938
  •  . . .
  • 2012-2021


847badgerfan

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Re: Ranking CFP era performance
« Reply #115 on: March 28, 2023, 03:46:33 PM »
Ohio State doesn't get hit nearly as hard.  Their strongest instate competitor is probably Cincy at least right now but they are nowhere close to what Auburn is.  The Buckeyes do lose more often to Notre Dame, Michigan, and Penn State when they are faltering but that is it.  On a down-cycle the situation isn't nearly as dire in Columbus as it is in Tuscaloosa. 

Probably gonna have to add UW so long as Fickell is there. Ohio is a big priority for him and now he's at a better program.

.

Oh, and your writeup on OSU's consistency is great work. And probably spot-on.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

ELA

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Re: Ranking CFP era performance
« Reply #116 on: March 28, 2023, 03:50:26 PM »
My decade would be whatever was the worst. 

I didn't just do 1927-1936 then 1937-1946, I did them all:


My god, are you a time traveler?

ELA

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Re: Ranking CFP era performance
« Reply #117 on: March 28, 2023, 03:51:07 PM »
Nobody is close to OSU in overall consistency.  I don't know who might be second.
Vanderbilt?  Unless you mean consistently good

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Ranking CFP era performance
« Reply #118 on: March 28, 2023, 04:01:35 PM »
Probably gonna have to add UW so long as Fickell is there. Ohio is a big priority for him and now he's at a better program.
I have no doubt that Fickell will recruit Ohio hard but geographically (and sticking with the Bama comparison), that is like saying that Mizzou is a threat to Bama. Camp Randall is a 500mi drive from Cleveland Glenville High School. 

I'm not saying you are altogether wrong, just that I think geography matters. A lot (most?) recruits want to play somewhat close to home so Fickell at Michigan or Notre Dame would concern me a lot more.
Oh, and your writeup on OSU's consistency is great work. And probably spot-on.
Thank you, best explanation I can come up with. It has been going far too long to be explained by coaching so I looked at permanent factors and that was what I came up with.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Ranking CFP era performance
« Reply #119 on: March 28, 2023, 04:38:39 PM »
I have no doubt that Fickell will recruit Ohio hard but geographically (and sticking with the Bama comparison), that is like saying that Mizzou is a threat to Bama. Camp Randall is a 500mi drive from Cleveland Glenville High School.

I'm not saying you are altogether wrong, just that I think geography matters. A lot (most?) recruits want to play somewhat close to home so Fickell at Michigan or Notre Dame would concern me a lot more.

I'd agree. Fickell with his Ohio roots will undoubtedly peel off a few recruits, but I'd also say Fickell at a helmet farther away would be more likely than Fickell at UW to snag the big fish. 

I think Fickell will get some pretty good starters out of guys who otherwise would be backups at OSU. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Ranking CFP era performance
« Reply #120 on: March 28, 2023, 06:49:32 PM »
Being THE prime U in a large state (historically) is clearly a factor.  PSU would seem to be close to that but were not in a conference for eons.  But even so, you'd think a bad set of coaches would have brought Ohio State down for more than a year here or there.

ELA

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Re: Ranking CFP era performance
« Reply #121 on: March 28, 2023, 06:52:29 PM »
I'd agree. Fickell with his Ohio roots will undoubtedly peel off a few recruits, but I'd also say Fickell at a helmet farther away would be more likely than Fickell at UW to snag the big fish.

I think Fickell will get some pretty good starters out of guys who otherwise would be backups at OSU.

Narduzzi was a bigger deal than Dantonio in terms of Ohio recruiting for MSU.  Particularly with the Catholic schools.  Losing him I thin is why things slipped.  Narduzzi really had his finger on the pulse of the truly underrated recruits.

And even with that, assuming Wisconsin can tap Ohio as well as peak MSU, getting a few high 3*/4* guys, and finding the right underrated guys, well, we've seen the ceiling.

Cincydawg

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Re: Ranking CFP era performance
« Reply #122 on: March 28, 2023, 06:59:29 PM »
I looked quickly, but for UGA

1958  4-6  (They were 10-1 the next year with Tarkenton)
1957  3-7
1956  3-6-1
1955  4-6
1954  6-3-1
1953  3-8
1952  7-4
1951  5-5
1950  6-3-3  (They were in the post season somehow)
1949  4-6-1

(I didn't know they played more than 10 games back then.  In 1948 they were 9-2.)

Anyway, that's pretty dismal, 6 losing seasons in ten years.)


OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Ranking CFP era performance
« Reply #123 on: March 28, 2023, 09:39:49 PM »
Anyone have data on what level of defense is "average" for the eventual NC winner (leave out the past two years perhaps?)?

Who had the worst defense to win a CFP NC?
19 LSU, 14 OSU.....going back further, 10 Auburn......those are by far the worst defenses for NC winners. 

*I see ELA posted this already, but I was right, lol
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Ranking CFP era performance
« Reply #124 on: March 28, 2023, 09:41:29 PM »
Nobody is close to OSU in overall consistency.  I don't know who might be second.
Nebraska from 70-00, but overall, it's OU.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Ranking CFP era performance
« Reply #125 on: March 29, 2023, 06:53:04 AM »
UGA has been consistent from 2021-2022.

I don't think OU has been more consistent than Ohio State.

 

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