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Topic: Population trends random thoughts

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Gigem

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Re: Population trends random thoughts
« Reply #112 on: June 17, 2025, 11:28:26 AM »
Some people have luck putting their condenser outside the home on the side that is away from the predominant breeze.  IE if the predominant breeze is S/SE as it is here, put the AC Condenensor (outside unit) on the N NW side of the house to protect it from the constant sea-breeze.  

Riffraft

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Re: Population trends random thoughts
« Reply #113 on: June 17, 2025, 11:36:26 AM »
I think this question should be directed at @Riffraft , he was the one who said he preferred 112 over 50. 
No blood thinner, as I said I have just become a true desert dweller.  It was funny when our trip got to Egypt everyone was complaining about it being over 100 degrees after being in low 70s for most of the trip and I was basking in the glory of the warmth. 

Gigem

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Re: Population trends random thoughts
« Reply #114 on: June 17, 2025, 12:17:57 PM »
I almost replied to that particular post " tell me you've never been in 110+ heat without telling me you've never been in 110+ heat" and then I saw where you actually do live in the desert.  I think I've only been in true 110+ heat only a couple of times without having a "feels like" adjustment.  Once I think was in 1998 when the summer temps in Texas and particularly College Station were especially scorching for about a week.  As I recall, it got up to 112-113 for 3-5 days.  And the other time I can't actually remember when, but I'm sure it's gotten that hot a time or two around SE Texas over the last 40+ years.  

We have been in plenty of "feels like" temps over the years of 110+ (heat index).  

jgvol

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Re: Population trends random thoughts
« Reply #115 on: June 17, 2025, 12:26:15 PM »
I almost replied to that particular post " tell me you've never been in 110+ heat without telling me you've never been in 110+ heat" and then I saw where you actually do live in the desert.  I think I've only been in true 110+ heat only a couple of times without having a "feels like" adjustment.  Once I think was in 1998 when the summer temps in Texas and particularly College Station were especially scorching for about a week.  As I recall, it got up to 112-113 for 3-5 days.  And the other time I can't actually remember when, but I'm sure it's gotten that hot a time or two around SE Texas over the last 40+ years. 

We have been in plenty of "feels like" temps over the years of 110+ (heat index). 

I've been in Vegas in July and August.  115 - 118 daily.  Not fun.

Different from humid heat though.  It felt like when you open the oven and get that heat blast in the face.

Cincydawg

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Re: Population trends random thoughts
« Reply #116 on: June 17, 2025, 12:27:19 PM »
I've been in 115° to 118°F several times, it feels like you opened your oven, somewhat.   I was in LV in 1980 for a conference and the conference rooms seemed to be all at 65°F, so I had to alternative going in to cool off and out to heat back up.  I was wearing a suit back then.

Palm Springs got over 100°F recently when we were there.  It was somewhat manageable.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Population trends random thoughts
« Reply #117 on: June 17, 2025, 12:40:40 PM »
Tying this all back to the population trends:
If you are in the Midwest the advantage to moving South is that you get less snow or, if you go far enough, you can "throw away the scraper" as Brad put it.  However, for most (ie, not @Riffraft ) people that advantage is at least partially offset by the fact that you get an increase in uncomfortably hot months.  

Moving say from Chicago to Atlanta you'd get an increase in uncomfortably hot months and you wouldn't actually be able to throw away the scraper.  Obviously you'd use a scraper less in Atlanta than Chicago but the average daily low in Atlanta is only slightly above freezing in December and January so you probably wouldn't want to get rid of it entirely.  It DOES occasionally snow in Atlanta.  Worse, they get ice storms.  Worst still, they simply don't have the equipment and infrastructure to handle it the way that places like Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, and Buffalo do so when it does snow it is a catastrophe.  Also, don't ever drive when it is snowy in the South, those people have only limited experience with it and they have no idea how to handle it.  

Costal California is basically a "cheat code".  Both LA and SF have warmer winters than the Midwest, so warm in fact that you can "throw away the scraper" and they actually have cooler summers than Chicago so you basically have the best of both worlds.  

Looking at population trends, this all makes sense.  California's population growth took off well before Texas, Florida, and Arizona.  That makes sense because California was "livable" before a/c.  What a/c did for California was to open up the interior for development.  As noted, LA and SF have pleasant summers but if you get 50-100 miles inland (depending on topography it can be more or less) you are basically looking at Arizona's climate and only Riff wants that.  

Texas', Florida's, and Arizona's population growth didn't really take off until after a/c was widely available in private homes.  In the half-century from 1920-1970 Texas' population only grew from a little below Ohio's to about equal to PA/IL/OH.  In the half-century from 1970-2020 Texas' population exploded to more than any two of PA/IL/OH.  

I'm still at a loss to explain Pennsylvania's decline at least relative to Ohio and Michigan.  I think that @betarhoalphadelta 's theory that major Cities like NYC and Chicago draw people from the entire region not just the state explains PA's decline relative to NY and IL but, as I see it, Philly and Pittsburg aren't substantially less of a draw than Detroit, Cleveland, Columbus, or Cincinnati.  

Here are some numbers to illustrate the change:  In the late-1800s and early 1900s Pennsylvania's population was around half-again Ohio's and around two-and-a-half times Michigan's.  The peak for PA relative to both OH and MI was in 1910 when PA's population was 161% of Ohio's and 273% of Michigan's.  Ninety years later in 2000 Pennsylvania's population was only about 8% more than OH's and 24% more than MI's.  It has recovered a little in the last two censuses but it is still only about 10% over Ohio's and 29% over Michigan's.  

Riffraft

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Re: Population trends random thoughts
« Reply #118 on: June 17, 2025, 12:49:13 PM »
The grass in the desert goes dormant in the summer and in the winter. I only have to mow in the spring and fall.


I would never plant grass in the desert. Why plant something you have to water to keep it alive and then have to cut it on a regular basis.  I have artifical turf in part of my backyard and rock in the front and back and desert plants and cacti spread around it.  

Riffraft

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Re: Population trends random thoughts
« Reply #119 on: June 17, 2025, 12:50:56 PM »
I almost replied to that particular post " tell me you've never been in 110+ heat without telling me you've never been in 110+ heat" and then I saw where you actually do live in the desert.  I think I've only been in true 110+ heat only a couple of times without having a "feels like" adjustment.  Once I think was in 1998 when the summer temps in Texas and particularly College Station were especially scorching for about a week.  As I recall, it got up to 112-113 for 3-5 days.  And the other time I can't actually remember when, but I'm sure it's gotten that hot a time or two around SE Texas over the last 40+ years. 

We have been in plenty of "feels like" temps over the years of 110+ (heat index). 
The only time I don't like it over 100 degrees is when I am officiating a football game and it is 9pm and still 100. 

BTW don't get me wrong, if I live in a high humidity location, I would hate the heat.  There are a couple of weeks during monsoon season that the humidity gets too high. 

Gigem

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Re: Population trends random thoughts
« Reply #120 on: June 17, 2025, 01:02:52 PM »
No blood thinner, as I said I have just become a true desert dweller.  It was funny when our trip got to Egypt everyone was complaining about it being over 100 degrees after being in low 70s for most of the trip and I was basking in the glory of the warmth.
How long does it truly get hot in your area (Arizona I think from your previous posts)?  For here, in SE Texas, it gets super hot from about May until at least September.  July, August, and September are usually the worst, with August being the Hot King and closely followed by September.  It's not unusual to have a super hot September that almost rivals August, but usually by the end of the month things start to cool somewhat.  

Gigem

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Re: Population trends random thoughts
« Reply #121 on: June 17, 2025, 01:11:23 PM »
Ehhh. More than a few lake ports in those cities.

Those northern places did have certain natural things, which fed factories. But certian products were made cheaper elsewhere, or resources were stripped away to a degree.

Southern infrastructure also caught up too, in a grander scale.
Well, I think that any saltwater port would vastly trump any inland (river or great lakes port).  I just checked the list for the #1 ports by tonnage in the US and you don't even see an inland (freshwater port) until you get to #26.  Not trying to be a dick about it since I really know nothing about shipping on the Great Lakes or even some of the larger rivers but I'd think there is no comparison.  I just looked and the Port of Houston is rated #1 (tonnage).  

Gigem

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Re: Population trends random thoughts
« Reply #122 on: June 17, 2025, 01:21:18 PM »
For my own county, population growth has been incredible.  Here's what AI says:


Now, it's true that we're adjacent to Houston and a lot of that is driven by the growth of Houston but we do have a very robust economy in the southern part of the county (where I live).  One of the reasons for that is that there is a natural salt-dome here, and in fact there is multiple salt-domes in this county. We also have a large man-made port (I have a picture of my Great Grandfather standing on dry-land with a bridge being built over the diversion channel).  Our port is rated #16 in the country.  

They use the salt domes to store hydrocarbons, one is called Bryan Mound and it is part of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve created in the 1970's.  There are a couple more around.  They mine the salt (brine) out and store hydrocarbons there in vast quantities that you could not otherwise store in above-ground tanks.  They used to say that well # (whatever) could store X the volume of the astrodome (vacant for 25 years, the astrodome, not the wells).  They started building petrochemical plants here in the 1940's and earlier due to the location of the salt domes, the port, and oil supply.  It's also close to the Houston ship channel.  They use the brine to manufacture all sorts of things from chlorine and formerly magnesium.  The magnesium supplied from the plants here were very crucial to our WWII effort.  They quit making mag here 30 years ago, but for about 40-50 years were were the number one supplier in the world.  We have since transitioned to plastics, petrochemicals, and other things.  There are probably about a dozen or more major chemical plants in the SE part of the county and they're still building.  

We also have had relatively affordable housing until possibly very recently and overall low COL.  People move here for the jobs, and they don't leave because it's always been very affordable.  

Cincydawg

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Re: Population trends random thoughts
« Reply #123 on: June 17, 2025, 01:25:55 PM »
In 1970, the population of Gwinnett County, Georgia, was 72,349.  It recently eclipsed a million.

Resident Population in Gwinnett County, GA (GAGWIN7POP) | FRED | St. Louis Fed

They have traffic issues and no MARTA.


Gigem

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Re: Population trends random thoughts
« Reply #124 on: June 17, 2025, 01:26:23 PM »
My point with the above post was to point out that some things are just a byproduct of the natural features of the region.  Access to ports, rail, shipping, pipelines, business friendly government, low taxes, and lots of land all drive this.  In a lot of places like in CA they are constrained by geography.  IE you can't keep expanding because you'll hit the mountains.  Here it's just flat land as far as you can drive for hours, no natural barriers to stop growth.  There's a word for it, sprawl, and it goes on literally forever.  

I had to go through Houston recently.  It took me 45 minutes to get from my house to Reliant Stadium (astrodome area for you oldsters).  Back in the day, the freeway N was almost all cow pastures.  There is still a lot of open land, thousands and thousands of acres but I have slowly watched that land get subsumed by sprawl over 30 years.  Subdivisions, shopping centers, medical centers, the whole 9 all built over the last 30 years.  

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: Population trends random thoughts
« Reply #125 on: June 17, 2025, 01:27:21 PM »
Even before this discussion I suspected that I was an outlier on the lack of heat tolerance side. 
If so, that I am right there with you.

We were in Cincinnati on Saturday for the Savanna Banna's game at Riverfront (or the Great American Ballpark as I've been told). It was in the low 80's and I thought I was going to die. We stayed the night in Cincy and came home on Sunday. When we left Cincy, it was still morning but in the high 70's and humid. Unbearable. We got home and it was in the low 70's and very comfortable. 

I will take 0 degrees any day over 100. I can always put on layers to warm up but you can only take so much off. 

 

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