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Topic: Poll: Have you had COVID

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #84 on: October 07, 2021, 01:42:10 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on October 07, 2021, 01:17:04 PM
The fact that you think citing the Declaration of Independence is being "dramatic" really tells me all I need to know here. 

Really? 

The government taking tens of thousands of dollars from me every year does a HELL of a lot more to limit my liberty and pursuit of happiness than a mask mandate. That they have decided that because I choose to actually have a job, they're entitled to whatever portion of my income that they decide in Washington and Sacramento they vote for? 

If a mask mandate violates the spirit of the Declaration of Independence because of your personal comfort in a post-vaccine world, how does it not violate the spirit of the Declaration of Independence in a pre-vaccine world? Because I'll bet it's just as uncomfortable and affects your liberty and pursuit of happiness equally, it's just that the benefit is greater in a pre-vaccine world...

Now, I don't think you were exactly citing the Declaration perhaps in the way BAB is implying, but if you were, that WOULD be dramatic.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #85 on: October 07, 2021, 01:47:06 PM »
Quote from: rolltidefan on October 07, 2021, 01:26:47 PM
i'll agree with the motorcycle helmet, but again seat belts don't just save yourself. in an accident without a seat belt, you (potentially) become a projectile endangering others. it's my understanding this was a heavy consideration when making those laws. unlike masks, though, seat belts to also provide a substantial boost to your own health if used. but, again, you're not only protecting the ignorant from themselves. you're protecting others from the ignorant.
There is some evidence that wearing a seat belt makes you more capable of controlling your vehicle during extreme maneuvering to avoid a collision, and not wearing a seat belt makes it hard to control your car if you're flying side to side within it.

I personally, to use your word regarding personal benefit of masks, find that benefit of a seat belt "negligible". Most vehicle fatalities occur due to inattention, or drunkenness, etc, not because someone couldn't evade a crash because they weren't strapped in. 

I don't think the argument for a seat belt law is justifiable based on your "projectile" concern. How many lives are lost from human projectiles flying out of cars?

Would we save more lives than are lost by human projectiles by mandating that all cars be equipped with 5-point racing harnesses and people wear a helmet while driving? I'll bet we would. But I don't see anyone suggesting we do that. 
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847badgerfan

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #86 on: October 07, 2021, 01:50:16 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 07, 2021, 01:47:06 PM
There is some evidence that wearing a seat belt makes you more capable of controlling your vehicle during extreme maneuvering to avoid a collision, and not wearing a seat belt makes it hard to control your car if you're flying side to side within it.

I personally, to use your word regarding personal benefit of masks, find that benefit of a seat belt "negligible". Most vehicle fatalities occur due to inattention, or drunkenness, etc, not because someone couldn't evade a crash because they weren't strapped in.

I don't think the argument for a seat belt law is justifiable based on your "projectile" concern. How many lives are lost from human projectiles flying out of cars?

Would we save more lives than are lost by human projectiles by mandating that all cars be equipped with 5-point racing harnesses and people wear a helmet while driving? I'll bet we would. But I don't see anyone suggesting we do that.

Coincidentally, I saw an example of this on the local news last night. Neither the driver nor his young son were belted.

The young son was the projectile, and then the driver's trucked rolled on top of him and killed him. The unbelted driver lived, of course.
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bayareabadger

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #87 on: October 07, 2021, 01:52:47 PM »
If a lady walks down the street top half unmasked, she will face punishment from the government. Even if it lets her pursue happiness.  

If she does so next to a school because she likes walking her neighborhood, she’ll face considerably more punishment, and a hefty majority of the country would support it. 

And if she does the school thing, the government might well declare she cannot live in the vast majority of the town or city in which she lives, again with somewhat broad support. 

Similarly, my giblets must be masked outside. Their right to happiness also abridged. 

These abridgments of rights are treated as a mundane part of society. And somewhat normal. And in that vein, I’d call a mask mandate a mundane abridgment. I think they should probably stop having them unless a good reason is presented, but again, highly mundane. 
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bayareabadger

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #88 on: October 07, 2021, 01:53:47 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2021, 01:50:16 PM
Coincidentally, I saw an example of this on the local news last night. Neither the driver nor his young son were belted.

The young son was the projectile, and then the driver's trucked rolled on top of him and killed him. The unbelted driver lived, of course.
Well that’s awful. 
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #89 on: October 07, 2021, 03:12:57 PM »
Why do some people act like their rights are all that matter?  You're not an island.  I have the right to rush to the door and exit, but I slow down and open the door for the old lady because it's courteous.


I love how wearing a mask for the courtesy of the health of others just isn't even an option for some.  What a great world we live in.

Sure, I take issue when my rights are infringed upon UNLESS IT'S FOR A GOOD REASON.  Whether it's wearing a mask or paying taxes, I do it, because it's for a good reason.  
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utee94

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #90 on: October 07, 2021, 03:17:26 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2021, 03:12:57 PM
Why do some people act like their rights are all that matter?  You're not an island.  I have the right to rush to the door and exit, but I slow down and open the door for the old lady because it's courteous.


I love how wearing a mask for the courtesy of the health of others just isn't even an option for some.  What a great world we live in.

Sure, I take issue when my rights are infringed upon UNLESS IT'S FOR A GOOD REASON.  Whether it's wearing a mask or paying taxes, I do it, because it's for a good reason. 
I'm vaccinated.  There is no good reason to require me to wear a mask.

Taking away people's rights for NO reason, has a name.  And it ain't Liberty.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #91 on: October 07, 2021, 03:29:12 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on October 07, 2021, 03:17:26 PM
I'm vaccinated.  There is no good reason to require me to wear a mask.

Taking away people's rights for NO reason, has a name.  And it ain't Liberty.
Especially because we were all told we would not have to wear a mask - only if we got vaccinated.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #92 on: October 07, 2021, 03:39:07 PM »
It's not either/or....it's additive.  The vaccination is the biggest, best step you can take.  A mask is the next best, while being much lower down.  Below that still, is social distancing (physical distancing, not staying home).  

All 3 is the best practice.  I can't really do the last one, but I do the first 2.  
Saying I did the first one and so I don't have to do the others isn't really sensical.  

Anyway, I don't see any reason vaccinated people should bicker....the problem is the unvaccinated.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

utee94

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #93 on: October 07, 2021, 03:59:22 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2021, 03:39:07 PM
It's not either/or....it's additive.  The vaccination is the biggest, best step you can take.  A mask is the next best, while being much lower down.  Below that still, is social distancing (physical distancing, not staying home). 

All 3 is the best practice.  I can't really do the last one, but I do the first 2. 
Saying I did the first one and so I don't have to do the others isn't really sensical. 

Anyway, I don't see any reason vaccinated people should bicker....the problem is the unvaccinated.
The science tells us there is not a statistically significant improvement to wearing a mask, once you've been vaccinated.  

I'm an engineer and I tend to follow the science.

Other people latch on to hysteria but that's not really my thing.

As long as the science tells me that the difference in safety for me, and others, between being vaccinated and not wearing a mask, and being vaccinated and wearing a mask, is not statistically significant, then I'm going to go ahead and keep on saying there is NO reason for the government to mandate that vaccinated individuals like me, should wear masks.

For all the "follow the science" rhetoric I heard early-on from certain groups, they certainly seem to have abandoned that position recently.  It doesn't make any sense to me, but people do weird things for weird reasons, and there you have it.

I'd agree that our problems are with the unvaccinated, except honestly, that's not my problem.  It's theirs.
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Gigem

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #94 on: October 13, 2021, 08:42:50 AM »
I don't know about yall, but I'm done with this circular argument.  Everybody here made their point a long time ago.  
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