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Topic: Poll: Have you had COVID

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #70 on: October 07, 2021, 12:31:57 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on October 06, 2021, 03:47:08 PM
word.

I realize I'm picking nits, I'm just tired of people offhand dismissing comfort/happiness as a relevant factor, and acting like anyone who brings it up, wants to murder old people.  I mean, it was considered important enough to be enumerated specifically by the founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence, as one of our inalienable rights. 

And the problem I'm seeing is that even today, there are a lot of people out there that believe requiring masks for vaccinated people is acceptable.  It's really not.  I understand there's an enforcement issue but:

1) That's not really my problem and
2) The unvaccinated have only themselves to blame at this point.

Free My Face, dammit!!!

You're right, no one SHOULD be forced to wear a mask.  
But what do you do when a bulk of your populace is ignorant?  
We made this seat belt here.  For your safety.  All you have to do is put it on.  It works really well.  
Nah, it's uncomfortable.  
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ALRIGHT, WTF PEOPLE?!!  DON'T YOU WANT TO STAY ALIVE?!?!  THAT'S IT, IT'S LAW NOW!!!! THERE, YOU'RE WELCOME!!!
Same-same, no?
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #71 on: October 07, 2021, 12:32:58 PM »
I missed the poll, but it's awesome that there's a "no" option for a virus that's 75% asymptomatic.  LOL
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

utee94

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #72 on: October 07, 2021, 12:36:55 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2021, 12:32:58 PM
I missed the poll, but it's awesome that there's a "no" option for a virus that's 75% asymptomatic.  LOL
Testing can detect the antibodies that the virus itself produces, so I'd assume anyone that answered "no" had been recently tested and showed negative for naturally derived COVID antibodies.  That has been true of me, twice, over the past 18 months.

However, if it had been more than 3-4 weeks since my last test, I'd probably answer, "Probably not" or whatever that option was.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #73 on: October 07, 2021, 12:55:43 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2021, 12:32:58 PM
I missed the poll, but it's awesome that there's a "no" option for a virus that's 75% asymptomatic.  LOL
I absolutely get that. That said, I chose "no" and explained it:

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2021, 03:49:42 PM
I put no.

Obviously I probably should put "I don't think so but I doubt it", because I did not have several negative antibody tests prior to the vaccine to confirm I didn't have it...

But given that my wife was going to the office today, that I was shuttling kids back and forth to their mom's house, and given that literally nobody in my orbit incl wife's parents, kids' grandparents on mom's side, etc ever showed symptoms (and I don't know how we could have avoided spread) I feel pretty comfortable that I did not ever have it. SOMEONE would have shown up with symptoms somewhere, and nobody did.
If it's 75% asymptomatic (which is a stat I disagree with, I thought it was closer to 50% asymptomatic) and given how transmissible it is, I chose "no" because I think that's the most likely answer given the odds since NONE of the people in my orbit or my ex's orbit (since we shuttle the kids back and forth) ever got a symptomatic case. 

At the very least, assume that I got it and it was transmissible JUST after my kids went back to their mom's house, so there was no chance I could pass it it to them. AND I didn't see anyone else other than my wife for the next week and a half until the kids came back. Well, I wasn't quarantining from my wife, so there's no way that I wouldn't have transmitted it to her. 

If it's 50% asymptomatic, then with the two of us there's only a 25% chance of BOTH of us being asymptomatic. 

But who would I have gotten it from? I wasn't going anywhere, and my wife was only going to the office and was distancing from her one coworker when the doctors were WFH. The only way that I would have gotten it is if I got it from the kids, which means that everyone in their mom's orbit gets pulled in to the question of a symptomatic case, and the odds go down much more.

So you can "lol" all you want, but some of us actually did put some real thought into the answer. 
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #74 on: October 07, 2021, 12:56:54 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2021, 12:31:57 PM
You're right, no one SHOULD be forced to wear a mask. 
But what do you do when a bulk of your populace is ignorant? 
We made this seat belt here.  For your safety.  All you have to do is put it on.  It works really well. 
Nah, it's uncomfortable. 
.
.
.
.
ALRIGHT, WTF PEOPLE?!!  DON'T YOU WANT TO STAY ALIVE?!?!  THAT'S IT, IT'S LAW NOW!!!! THERE, YOU'RE WELCOME!!!
Same-same, no?
I'm against seat belt laws. And motorcycle helmet laws.

I won't ride in a car without the belt, nor ride a motorcycle without a helmet. Because I'm not ignorant.

But I don't think we need this law just to save the ignorant from their ignorance. 
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bayareabadger

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #75 on: October 07, 2021, 01:15:36 PM »

Quote from: utee94 on October 07, 2021, 12:24:55 PM

There's no drama coming from me.  I do see lots of people freaking out here, and elsewhere, when I say what I feel about it all.  I view the drama as being entirely on their side. *shrug*



I read the invoking of the Declaration of Independence and the invoking of freedoms as a bit dramatic. Maybe I’m unusual, but I think it’s a far more mundane than all that. 

On the plus side, if you just don’t do it except when asked in places where it makes sense (I.e. not outside in a park or something), I’m betting it’ll come up rarely if ever. Most people don’t want to make a scene, and the ones that do likely will no matter the law. Unless your office is being super draconian or something. 
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utee94

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #76 on: October 07, 2021, 01:17:04 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on October 07, 2021, 01:15:36 PM
I read the invoking of the Declaration of Independence and the invoking of freedoms as a bit dramatic. Maybe I’m unusual, but I think it’s a far more mundane than all that.

On the plus side, if you just don’t do it except when asked in places where it makes sense (I.e. not outside in a park or something), I’m betting it’ll come up rarely if ever. Most people don’t want to make a scene, and the ones that do likely will no matter the law. Unless your office is being super draconian or something.


The fact that you think citing the Declaration of Independence is being "dramatic" really tells me all I need to know here.  
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rolltidefan

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #77 on: October 07, 2021, 01:17:28 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 07, 2021, 11:13:54 AM
Well, I simply assume that the mask has some non-zero benefit to me personally. I don't have any quantification of that--maybe it's only 5% reduction in the likelihood that in a given scenario I'll contract COVID, or perhaps that it won't stop me from contracting COVID but it might reduce viral load such that I have a less severe case, etc.

But otherwise, I do agree. What I think we know so far is that masks reduce R0 of COVID, and we believe that the reduction is more related to catching someone's outgoing breath and reducing emissions of the virus than stopping the virus on the incoming breath.
this is my understanding as well. the negligible amount of protection for yourself is just that, negligible. it's there, but not worth mentioning really. the real protection come from group effort, which we're lacking enough to not be effective.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #78 on: October 07, 2021, 01:19:47 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 07, 2021, 12:56:54 PM
I'm against seat belt laws. And motorcycle helmet laws.

I won't ride in a car without the belt, nor ride a motorcycle without a helmet. Because I'm not ignorant.

But I don't think we need this law just to save the ignorant from their ignorance.
Okay.....but the ignorant have kids at home who are orphaned when their ignorance kills them.  They have a job that expects them to show up and 100 other interconnected reasons they need saving from themselves.

With that being said, and with all of the laws on the books doing this already, it seems especially silly to draw the line at a mask.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

utee94

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #79 on: October 07, 2021, 01:20:09 PM »
Quote from: rolltidefan on October 07, 2021, 01:17:28 PM
this is my understanding as well. the negligible amount of protection for yourself is just that, negligible. it's there, but not worth mentioning really. the real protection come from group effort, which we're lacking enough to not be effective.
The real protection comes from group effort of being vaccinated.  That's the failure we're encountering here.

That so much focus continues to fall on the masks, is just one more in a long list of ways, that the messaging has been completely screwed up, for a very long time.
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rolltidefan

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #80 on: October 07, 2021, 01:26:47 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 07, 2021, 12:56:54 PM
I'm against seat belt laws. And motorcycle helmet laws.

I won't ride in a car without the belt, nor ride a motorcycle without a helmet. Because I'm not ignorant.

But I don't think we need this law just to save the ignorant from their ignorance.
i'll agree with the motorcycle helmet, but again seat belts don't just save yourself. in an accident without a seat belt, you (potentially) become a projectile endangering others. it's my understanding this was a heavy consideration when making those laws. unlike masks, though, seat belts to also provide a substantial boost to your own health if used. but, again, you're not only protecting the ignorant from themselves. you're protecting others from the ignorant.

i watched a video with a similar dilemma about personal privacy and genetic mapping. basically, the way they can map stuff on 23 and me and similar sites, my identity is not longer private, despite me never having done one of those tests. my decision to not have the privacy was made by someone's choice. someone i probably don't even know.  it's an interesting concept. link to video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT18KJouHWg
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rolltidefan

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #81 on: October 07, 2021, 01:28:18 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on October 07, 2021, 01:20:09 PM
The real protection comes from group effort of being vaccinated.  That's the failure we're encountering here.

That so much focus continues to fall on the masks, is just one more in a long list of ways, that the messaging has been completely screwed up, for a very long time.
whole-heartedly agree. but masks could have been a major help prior to vaccines, and should, imo, be using in conjunction with them to stop it quicker.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #82 on: October 07, 2021, 01:30:40 PM »
You're just falling prey to the worldwide conspiracy, man!
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

bayareabadger

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Re: Poll: Have you had COVID
« Reply #83 on: October 07, 2021, 01:33:10 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on October 07, 2021, 01:17:04 PM
The fact that you think citing the Declaration of Independence is being "dramatic" really tells me all I need to know here. 

What does it tell you about me? Generally curious? 
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