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Topic: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #266 on: November 30, 2017, 02:42:02 PM »
Kirby Hocutt, the Committee chairman, has almost directly said that the Committee does not look on that Clemson loss as a real loss.  It's sort of half a loss.  Because the Clemson QB--he of 7 TDs and 5 picks at the time--got hurt.

Baloney!

Oklahoma had 6 starters either out for the Iowa State game or who left the game hurt, but nobody mentions that each Tuesday night.  And rightly so.  Injuries are part of the game, and the Committee is wrong to give teams with injuries special consideration, much less to pick one team above all others to receive said consideration.
I agree with you and find it odd that Clemson's loss seems to be more "excused" than any others.  
At this point, however, I really don't think it matters other than for seeding because:
  • I think that Clemson is in with a win and out with a loss.  
  • I think that OU is in with a win and out with a loss.  
  • I think that Auburn is in with a win and out with a loss.  
  • I think that Wisconsin is in with a win and out with a loss.  

Seeding DOES matter, but at least this year, I'm not sure that it matters in the way that it normally would.  First off, there is no significant difference between #2 and #3.  Thus, the only real differences are between #1/2 and between #3/4.  If we all thought that #1 was substantially stronger than the others or that #4 was substantially weaker then either the 1/2 or the 3/4 difference would be VERY important.  As I see it this year, neither of those things are the case.  As I see it, the top-10 are all about the same and it depends more on how your specific team matches up with them and/or how good of a day your/their team has.  
  • Clemson has a bunch of wins over .500+ teams (as discussed ad nauseam) but they also lost to Cuse.  
  • Auburn has some great wins but they also lost to LSU.  
  • OU has some great wins but they also lost to ISU.  
  • Wisconsin looks great but their only ranked victim is #21 Northwestern and their best win outside of their home stadium was Nebraska.  
  • Bama looked great until Auburn but their best wins are #17 and#23.  
  • UGA has some great wins but they also got run off the field by Auburn.  
  • Miami has a great win over ND but they lost to Pitt and struggled with a bunch of mediocre teams.  
  • Ohio State has some great wins but their loss to OU wasn't terribly close and their loss to Iowa was a catastrophe.  
  • Penn State I think is top-4 but they have no CFP chance.  
  • USC could be an 11-2 P5 Champion but they got run off the field by ND and lost to WSU.  

I strongly believe that any of the CFP contenders on their best day could run any of the others off the field on their worst day.  

rolltidefan

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Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #267 on: November 30, 2017, 02:42:51 PM »
I think a lot of the Bama/tOSU decision (if that is relevant) will come down to how the committee views Bama's FSU win.  
If the committee views FSU as a 5-6 team that also lost to NCST, Miami, L'Ville, Boston College, and Clemson then Bama's schedule is pretty weak.  However, if the committee views FSU as the CFP contender that they were viewed as when that game was played then Bama's schedule looks a lot better.  
the reality is likely somewhere in between. francois could have made a difference in some of those game, but not all. they're likely similar to lsu or msu, imo.

the lsu loss to troy hurt bama more imo. if they don't lose that game, they're 10-2 and around #10 with a win over au and close loss vs bama.then bama has their signature win.

blaming you mdt.

TresselownsUM

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Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #268 on: November 30, 2017, 04:05:01 PM »
Penn State I think is top-4 but they have no CFP chance

Really? I really like their skill players a lot, but I thought their offensive line was just OK, and I thought their defense was a bit overrated. Very good team, but top 4? eh. The real problem is they had 2 chances to prove it OSU/MSU and they didn't. Nothing OOC to show how good they were. The UM win was by far their best, dominant effort, but UM is an 8-4 squad.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #269 on: November 30, 2017, 04:22:09 PM »
Penn State I think is top-4 but they have no CFP chance

Really? I really like their skill players a lot, but I thought their offensive line was just OK, and I thought their defense was a bit overrated. Very good team, but top 4? eh. The real problem is they had 2 chances to prove it OSU/MSU and they didn't. Nothing OOC to show how good they were. The UM win was by far their best, dominant effort, but UM is an 8-4 squad. 
Yes, although I think "top-4" should perhaps have been phrased as "playoff caliber".  I frankly think that any of the top-10 could win it all and none of them really stand out.  
The strength of Penn State is that their worst isn't that bad.  Their worst is losing in Columbus by a point and losing in East Lansing by three.  That is obviously MUCH better than Ohio State's worst but it is also clearly better than Clemson's, Oklahoma's, Georgia's, Miami's, and USC's.  

JWilly86

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Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #270 on: November 30, 2017, 04:59:54 PM »
I'm tired of hearing no one will do a home and home with Wisconsin, it's a total BS excuse. Ohio st did a home and home with Toledo, Michigan st has played at MAC schools, get off your high horse and quit asking for 2-for-1 games against "perceived" lesser teams and tell Barrie to man up and play power 5 schools. Wisconsin can't get a home and home with: Missouri, South Carolina, TCU, Iowa st, cal, Oregon, wash st, ucla, Texas am, Arkansas, ga tech, Pitt, west va etc?
The MSU vs CMU/WMU games were 3-for-1s.

CWSooner

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Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #271 on: November 30, 2017, 08:07:45 PM »
I agree with you and find it odd that Clemson's loss seems to be more "excused" than any others.  
At this point, however, I really don't think it matters other than for seeding because:
  • I think that Clemson is in with a win and out with a loss.  
  • I think that OU is in with a win and out with a loss.  
  • I think that Auburn is in with a win and out with a loss.  
  • I think that Wisconsin is in with a win and out with a loss.  

Seeding DOES matter, but at least this year, I'm not sure that it matters in the way that it normally would.  First off, there is no significant difference between #2 and #3.  Thus, the only real differences are between #1/2 and between #3/4.  If we all thought that #1 was substantially stronger than the others or that #4 was substantially weaker then either the 1/2 or the 3/4 difference would be VERY important.  As I see it this year, neither of those things are the case.  As I see it, the top-10 are all about the same and it depends more on how your specific team matches up with them and/or how good of a day your/their team has.  
  • Clemson has a bunch of wins over .500+ teams (as discussed ad nauseam) but they also lost to Cuse.  
  • Auburn has some great wins but they also lost to LSU and Clemson.  
  • OU has some great wins but they also lost to ISU.  
  • Wisconsin looks great but their only ranked victim is #21 Northwestern and their best win outside of their home stadium was Nebraska.  
  • Bama looked great until Auburn but their best wins are #17 and#23.  
  • UGA has some great wins but they also got run off the field by Auburn.  
  • Miami has a great win over ND but they lost to Pitt and struggled with a bunch of mediocre teams.  
  • Ohio State has some great wins but their loss to OU wasn't terribly close and their loss to Iowa was a catastrophe.  
  • Penn State I think is top-4 but they have no CFP chance.  
  • USC could be an 11-2 P5 Champion but they got run off the field by ND and lost to WSU.  

I strongly believe that any of the CFP contenders on their best day could run any of the others off the field on their worst day.  
I may be picking at nits here, but I'm just tired of hearing that same old excuse for Clemson every week.  I've never heard this "QB got hurt" rationale in the three previous iterations of the CFP-selection process.  It seems probable to me that the Committee wants to rank Clemson #1 for some reason, but it doesn't want to say that reason, so it offers up this lame substitute reason.

Which is not to say that Clemson is not the most-deserving team.  I think if you weigh resume and eye test about equally, Clemson looks the best.  I have no problem with Clemson's #1 ranking.  I'm just sick of the Committee's "reasoning" for that ranking.  Does the Committee give extra credit for a win with the #1 QB sitting out with an injury, such as TCU has?  No, per Kirby Hocutt, it does not.

What chaps me more than that, though, is Auburn at #2.  Auburn is probably the team nobody wants to play.  They've beaten the teams currently ranked #5 and #6 over the past three games.  But Auburn has TWO stinkin' losses.  That should knock the Tigers down to the #4 spot.  At least.  If you go on resume alone, Miami (which I regard as Satan-spawn) has a better one than Auburn does.  So do Bama and Georgia, but H2H with Auburn counts for something in those two cases.

By that same reasoning, I could make a case for Wisconsin being #1.

What I really think the rankings should be:
1. Clemson
2. Oklahoma
3. Wisconsin
4T. Auburn
4T. Miami
6. Alabama
7. Georgia
8. Ohio State (Division championship outweighs several other factors that would favor Penn State.)
9. Penn State
10. USC

I hope that the one-loss teams hold serve in the CCGs so that the Committee doesn't have to establish the precedent of putting 2-loss teams into the top four.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 08:09:45 PM by CWSooner »
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Kris61

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Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #272 on: November 30, 2017, 08:11:11 PM »
I think a lot of the Bama/tOSU decision (if that is relevant) will come down to how the committee views Bama's FSU win.  
If the committee views FSU as a 5-6 team that also lost to NCST, Miami, L'Ville, Boston College, and Clemson then Bama's schedule is pretty weak.  However, if the committee views FSU as the CFP contender that they were viewed as when that game was played then Bama's schedule looks a lot better.  
I think it's hard to view FSU as anymore than they were.  We just didn't get to see FSU with Francois this year.  If the committee considers FSU a contender based on preaseason rankings of other polls then they are going against everything they claim to be.

FearlessF

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Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #273 on: November 30, 2017, 08:21:47 PM »
yup, the beauty of the final poll is that everyone voting knows as much as possible regarding the quality of the game vs FSU or any other team on anyone's schedule
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

TyphonInc

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Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #274 on: November 30, 2017, 08:40:26 PM »
All this "will OSU make the playoffs" talk is leaving a quesy feeling for me. There is a really good Wisconsin team waiting in Indianapolis, just lickin' their chops and ready to open a can.

Ohio State's focus needs to be solely on trying to beat this really good Badger team. 

Last year Penn State got embarrassed by *ich, and that was the ammo used to keep them out of the playoffs, even after winning the B1G. This year OSU got embarrassed by OU and Iowa, don't worry about the playoffs, just beat Wisconsin, and letting the beauty pageant folks do their beauty pageant thing and send the Bucks where they see fit. 

Phase 1 - beat *ich. *Check*
Phase 2 - Win the Big Ten. Chance for that on Saturday.
Phase 3 - Play in the Rose bowl, well that no longer goes to the Pac and Big Ten champs, so ... GET OFF MY LAWN!

847badgerfan

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Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #275 on: November 30, 2017, 08:55:01 PM »
The MSU vs CMU/WMU games were 3-for-1s.
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good (bad) narrative.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #276 on: November 30, 2017, 09:07:33 PM »
I don't worry about who is 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 since it confers no advantage.  Obviously finishing at Five is the "almost" position for whiners.  Win your conference with one or zero losses and you're almost certainly in the Dance.  Get two losses or don't win your conference and you are simply at the whims of the committee.  Too bad.

FearlessF

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Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #277 on: November 30, 2017, 09:10:24 PM »
no sense having 8 spots for the 4 whiners
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MrNubbz

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Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #278 on: November 30, 2017, 09:11:13 PM »
Exactly CD at the mercy of the court and it could be Judge Parker presiding 
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847badgerfan

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Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #279 on: November 30, 2017, 09:11:43 PM »
I don't worry about who is 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 since it confers no advantage.  Obviously finishing at Five is the "almost" position for whiners.  Win your conference with one or zero losses and you're almost certainly in the Dance.  Get two losses or don't win your conference and you are simply at the whims of the committee.  Too bad.
I disagree. Where a team is sent makes a big difference.

If a B1G school is sent to the Sugar to play an SEC team it's advantage SEC. If a B1G school is sent to the Rose to play an SEC team, it's advantage B1G.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

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