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Topic: Playoff picture heading into rivalry weekend

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Playoff picture heading into rivalry weekend
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2018, 02:20:47 PM »
I actually think that situation is cleaner than if Alabama beats Georgia.  In yours I think Alabama is pretty obviously in.  It would be them vs. a bunch of 2 loss non champs.
If Ohio State, Oklahoma and Georgia all lose, I think it gets crazier.  Does Michigan sneak back in?  Georgia might stay #4 if it's a close loss to Bama.
I thought about the possibility of Michigan sneaking back in but, IMHO, there is zero chance of that for several reasons:
  • I think that 10-2 Michigan would be ranked behind even an 11-2 non-Champion Georgia.  Georgia would have a 1/2 game better record and their losses (#1 Bama and #~10 LSU) would be AT LEAST comparable to Michigan's losses (#~3 ND and #~5 tOSU).  Each team's best win would be approximately equal.  Michigan had a blowout win over #12 PSU while UGA had a slightly lesser blowout win over #9 UF.  
  • I really don't think that 10-2 Michigan would be ranked ahead of an 11-2 Ohio State that beat them H2H for at least three reasons:  First, Ohio State would have a 1/2 game better record.  Second, Ohio State's second loss would come in a CG that Michigan didn't have to play and it has seemed to me that the committee has not wanted to severely penalize teams for losing CG's.  Finally, even though Ohio State's losses would CLEARLY be worse than Michigan's, Ohio State would also have a much better win.  
  • Michigan can't realistically pass Bama, Clemson, or Notre Dame because the worst any of those three could do is 12-1 and Michigan is stuck at 10-2.  I think that you can add Georgia (see #1 above), Ohio State (see #2 above), and possibly Oklahoma to the list of teams that Michigan can't realistically pass and just assume that Michigan's ceiling in the final CFP rankings is no better than #6.  

IMHO, there are only six teams left in contention for the four CFP spots and they are the current top-6.  Current CFP rankings:
  • 12-0 Bama will finish 13-0 or 12-1 and might already be a CFP lock.  I think the only thing that would keep them out would be if they just got destroyed by Georgia while OU and tOSU were destroying Texas and Northwestern and Clemson also won.  Even then I'm not sure.  
  • 12-0 Clemson will finish 13-0 or 12-1.  Their major problem, should they lose, is that their SoS isn't all that good and their loss would be BAD.  Their loss would be bad enough that it would be comparable to Ohio State's loss to Purdue and Clemson would NOT be a Conference Champion.  
  • 12-0 Notre Dame, season complete.  The Irish are absolute 100% locks, the only question is seeding.  
  • 11-1 Georgia will finish 12-1 or 11-2.  At 12-1 they would CLEARLY be in.  At 11-2 they would need help, a lot of help.  It could happen but probably only if the loss was at least competitive and the Buckeyes and Sooners both lost.  
  • 11-1 Oklahoma will finish 12-1 or 11-2.  At 11-2 they have no chance.  At 12-1 they should be ok, but it would help them a LOT to win BIG over Texas and for Ohio State to either lose or at least win ugly.  
  • 11-1 Ohio State will finish 12-1 or 11-2.  The Buckeyes probably need either a Texas win or a MAJOR blowout of Northwestern coupled with Oklahoma beating Texas but looking bad doing it.  It would also help if Bama either beats Georgia or gets run out of the Georgia Dome.  
  • 10-2 Michigan is done at 10-2.  It is unlikely that they could pass even one of the teams ranked ahead of them.  
  • 11-0 UCF can finish 12-0 but they still will not have any quality wins and their SoS is something around 197.  
  • 9-3 Florida is done at 9-3.  They'll pass UCF if Memphis wins.  
  • 9-3 LSU is done at 9-3.  Like Florida, they'll pass UCF if Memphis wins.  
  • 9-3 Washington will finish 10-3 or 9-4.  They might pass LSU, Florida, and UCF if they win but I think that is their ceiling, #8.  
  • 9-3 Penn State is done at 9-3.  In theory they could pass Washington if the Huskies lose but in practice I don't think it matters because if Washington loses it means that #17 Utah wins and the Utes would probably trade places with the Huskies so PSU is probably stuck behind the winner either way.  Like Florida and LSU they'll pass UCF if Memphis wins.  
  • 10-2 Washington State is done at 10-2.  See PSU but worse because they might not pass the Huskies even if Utah does win due to H2H.  
  • 9-3 Texas will finish 10-3 or 9-4.  If they win they'll probably move to the front of the 3-loss line which would put them at #9 and my guess is that the committee would move Oklahoma behind them due to the 2xH2H so that gets them to #8.  Additionally, they might pass either UCF or tOSU or both if either or both of those teams lose and possibly Michigan as well so in theory they might finish #5 but I can't see anything higher than that.  

ELA

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Re: Playoff picture heading into rivalry weekend
« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2018, 02:32:16 PM »
I was thinking that putting Michigan ahead of UCF seemed like a good fail safe.  Now if somehow Georgia, Ohio State and Oklahoma all lose, maybe lose ugly, the committee still has a buffer to keep UCF out.  But if they decide UCF now gets its shot, they can still jump Michigan with the argument that they are now conference champs, which is enough to slide them past.  If they had dropped UM below UCF, there is no way they could jump Michigan back with a UCF win.

That's why I'm also a little surprised about Oklahoma ahead of OSU.  Oklahoma plays a better opponent, you can put Ohio State ahead for now, and still reevaluate if both win this weekend.  I think by putting Oklahoma ahead, they've closed the discussion.  I don't think blowing out a 5 loss Northwestern team, even if Oklahoma wins close, does much for me.

Riffraft

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Re: Playoff picture heading into rivalry weekend
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2018, 02:44:36 PM »
I was thinking that putting Michigan ahead of UCF seemed like a good fail safe.  Now if somehow Georgia, Ohio State and Oklahoma all lose, maybe lose ugly, the committee still has a buffer to keep UCF out.  But if they decide UCF now gets its shot, they can still jump Michigan with the argument that they are now conference champs, which is enough to slide them past.  If they had dropped UM below UCF, there is no way they could jump Michigan back with a UCF win.

That's why I'm also a little surprised about Oklahoma ahead of OSU.  Oklahoma plays a better opponent, you can put Ohio State ahead for now, and still reevaluate if both win this weekend.  I think by putting Oklahoma ahead, they've closed the discussion.  I don't think blowing out a 5 loss Northwestern team, even if Oklahoma wins close, does much for me.
now now, I just heard yesterday the committee chairman doesn't consider what might happen in  the next week when deciding on where to rank teams. ;)

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Playoff picture heading into rivalry weekend
« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2018, 02:54:07 PM »
now now, I just heard yesterday the committee chairman doesn't consider what might happen in  the next week when deciding on where to rank teams. ;)
I think we learned that last year.  If you remember, last year when they released the second-to-last rankings they stated that 5 (Bama) through 8 (Ohio State) were all very close.  Then NOTHING unexpected happened in the CG's and yet they didn't move Ohio State ahead of Alabama.  Last year's second-to-last rankings and what happened:
  • Clemson, beat #7 Miami, stayed #1
  • Auburn, lost to #6 Georgia, dropped to #7
  • Oklahoma, beat #11 TCU, rose to #2
  • Wisconsin, lost to #8 Ohio State, dropped to #6
  • Alabama, did not play
  • Georgia, beat #2 Auburn, rose to #3
  • Miami, lost to #1 Clemson, dropped to #10
  • Ohio State, beat #4 Wisconsin, moved to #5
It really doesn't bother me that my team didn't pass Bama.  My complaint is with the committee's comment.  In retrospect it OBVIOUSLY was not true.  If #8 Ohio State had truly been "very close" to #5 Bama then beating #4 Wisconsin while Bama sat home watching would have been enough to move the Buckeyes ahead of the Tide.  It wasn't.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Playoff picture heading into rivalry weekend
« Reply #60 on: November 30, 2018, 02:57:25 PM »
I was thinking that putting Michigan ahead of UCF seemed like a good fail safe.  Now if somehow Georgia, Ohio State and Oklahoma all lose, maybe lose ugly, the committee still has a buffer to keep UCF out.  But if they decide UCF now gets its shot, they can still jump Michigan with the argument that they are now conference champs, which is enough to slide them past.  If they had dropped UM below UCF, there is no way they could jump Michigan back with a UCF win.
You might be right but I'm not sure that Michigan is the team they would put in if that happened.  Even with ugly losses for UGA, OU, and tOSU I still think that at least the Bulldogs would stay ahead of the Wolverines.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Playoff picture heading into rivalry weekend
« Reply #61 on: November 30, 2018, 02:58:50 PM »
That's why I'm also a little surprised about Oklahoma ahead of OSU.  Oklahoma plays a better opponent, you can put Ohio State ahead for now, and still reevaluate if both win this weekend.  I think by putting Oklahoma ahead, they've closed the discussion.  I don't think blowing out a 5 loss Northwestern team, even if Oklahoma wins close, does much for me.
It is definitely a troubling indicator for the Buckeyes.  I think that the Buckeyes probably need a Texas win and if not they are probably going to need an ugly OU win and something on the order of the 2014 B1GCG 59-0 win to make up that gap.  

Cincydawg

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Re: Playoff picture heading into rivalry weekend
« Reply #62 on: November 30, 2018, 04:41:43 PM »
I still am unsure as to whether "the four best teams" means just that, or "the four best teams FOR THE PLAYOFF" means something different.

If it's the former, there need be nothing else said about winning conferences etc., it is the four best teams, end of discussion.

The addendum suggests some other considerations are significant, or could be.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Playoff picture heading into rivalry weekend
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2018, 04:51:56 PM »
If you don't care about on field results then you might as well take the top four accumulated recruiting classes over the last five years and be done with it. 

Thank God that that's not their approach. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Cincydawg

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Re: Playoff picture heading into rivalry weekend
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2018, 04:55:49 PM »
I'd be fine with UCF making if the 3 candidates all lose and UCF wins.

Michigan should be out of the game entirely.  If UGA loses a close game and OU and OSU lose, maybe.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Playoff picture heading into rivalry weekend
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2018, 04:58:23 PM »
UCF can win a NC without even participating in the playoffs, like last year.
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Cincydawg

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Re: Playoff picture heading into rivalry weekend
« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2018, 05:04:46 PM »
They probably won't win by being included.

Riffraft

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Re: Playoff picture heading into rivalry weekend
« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2018, 05:23:38 PM »
I think we learned that last year.  If you remember, last year when they released the second-to-last rankings they stated that 5 (Bama) through 8 (Ohio State) were all very close.  Then NOTHING unexpected happened in the CG's and yet they didn't move Ohio State ahead of Alabama.  Last year's second-to-last rankings and what happened:
  • Clemson, beat #7 Miami, stayed #1
  • Auburn, lost to #6 Georgia, dropped to #7
  • Oklahoma, beat #11 TCU, rose to #2
  • Wisconsin, lost to #8 Ohio State, dropped to #6
  • Alabama, did not play
  • Georgia, beat #2 Auburn, rose to #3
  • Miami, lost to #1 Clemson, dropped to #10
  • Ohio State, beat #4 Wisconsin, moved to #5
It really doesn't bother me that my team didn't pass Bama.  My complaint is with the committee's comment.  In retrospect it OBVIOUSLY was not true.  If #8 Ohio State had truly been "very close" to #5 Bama then beating #4 Wisconsin while Bama sat home watching would have been enough to move the Buckeyes ahead of the Tide.  It wasn't.  
Hence my wink emoji. I just wish they would be upfront about things because it becomes very obvious that they are bending the truth if not outright lying when they talk about the process week in and week out. 

FearlessF

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Re: Playoff picture heading into rivalry weekend
« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2018, 08:53:17 AM »
They probably won't win by being included.
they would like to find out
3 teams that are included probably won't win either
but, upsets happen
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ELA

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Re: Playoff picture heading into rivalry weekend
« Reply #69 on: December 01, 2018, 01:31:24 PM »
So for Michigan fans, say Texas wins, then Alabama wins.  Do you root for Northwestern, to open up a shot at the playoff, but knowing if (as medina thinks) they still won't take you, and you've lost the Rose; or do you root for OSU and lock in the Rose?

 

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