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Topic: Phil Steele's Top 25

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utee94

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #56 on: July 18, 2023, 06:56:15 PM »
Depends.

If the team in question is a helmet, it'll be a case of "we all knew they were REALLY good and deserving, it just took some time for the team to reach its potential."

If the team in question is not a helmet, who perhaps just gets in by virtue of backdooring their way into the CFP by winning their division via tiebreaker, winning their CCG by a whisker, and then looks JUST BARELY competent enough to squeak by their CFP opponents... Yeah, the CFB world will be apoplectic.
I mean, in a 12-team playoff, the 3-loss suckbutt is going to be seeded lowest.  So they're going to have to win 3 games in a row against "better" teams.  What MORE should they need to do, to prove themselves?

Chances are in a situation like that, it's probably because that team had injuries or just simple inexperience early, that resolved itself later in the season.  Nobody's just going to stumble-luck their way into 9 regular season wins, a CCG win, and then 3 CFP wins in a row.  




OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2023, 07:04:08 PM »
yup, just like getting beat by TCU!!!
The TCU thing hopefully revealed how a 4-team playoff could easily yield a paper champion.  A team can play out of it's mind and get to the championship game.  Instead of getting blown out like they did, say UGA was a QB-reliant team and he gets hurt on the 2nd play of the game....
But what was revealed was a non-elite team having to play consecutive elite teams and how hard that is.  Something elite programs routinely do at the end of the season didn't work out so well for the underdog.
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If nothing else, the requirement to overcome 3 hurdles (inside the top 4) makes it more legit for the winner.  However, every major upset yields an easier path for Cinderella's opponent(s).
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #58 on: July 18, 2023, 07:11:52 PM »
I mean, in a 12-team playoff, the 3-loss suckbutt is going to be seeded lowest.  So they're going to have to win 3 games in a row against "better" teams.  What MORE should they need to do, to prove themselves?

Chances are in a situation like that, it's probably because that team had injuries or just simple inexperience early, that resolved itself later in the season.  Nobody's just going to stumble-luck their way into 9 regular season wins, a CCG win, and then 3 CFP wins in a row. 
Oh, I don't think it's actually going to happen. It would probably require those CFP wins to be very fluky, broken bracket, every chance bounce coming their way.  

But c'mon. If Iowa or K State pulled off something like that? People would call it a fluke and say they never should have been there in the first place. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #59 on: July 18, 2023, 07:15:36 PM »
It would be like the 8-seed winning March Madness.  Celebrate the moment!  Remember these iconic plays!  Ignore that the best team(s) didn't win.
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It would complete the paradigm shift we've seen in college football, starting 30 years ago.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2023, 07:35:37 PM »
don't get the Clemson love to be honest....

FearlessF

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #61 on: July 18, 2023, 07:48:57 PM »
check the sched

FSU at home
ND at home
UNC at home
Canes on the road

not much else
South Carolina?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #62 on: July 18, 2023, 07:51:51 PM »
check the sched

FSU at home
ND at home
UNC at home
Canes on the road

not much else
South Carolina?
Yeah the ACC is terribad and the only SEC team on the schedule is... South Carolina...

FearlessF

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #63 on: July 18, 2023, 07:57:54 PM »
May be an image of text that says 'CFB HOME CFB Home @CFBHome 2h Most Vacated Wins of All Time #1 LSU 37 #2 Ole Miss 33 #3 Alabama 21 #3 Notre Dame 21 #5 North Carolina 16 #6 USC 14 #7 Florida State 12 #7 Ohio State 12 #9 Syracuse & Tennessee 11 #11 SMU 10 #12 California & Arkansas State 4 #13 Georgia Tech 1'
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2023, 08:16:22 AM »
Oh, I don't think it's actually going to happen. It would probably require those CFP wins to be very fluky, broken bracket, every chance bounce coming their way. 

But c'mon. If Iowa or K State pulled off something like that? People would call it a fluke and say they never should have been there in the first place.
TCU famously made the finals last year of course.  Imagine a "TCU" is a 12 seed and has a 5% chance of winning the first game, 3% the second, and 1% the third, I'm saying there is a chance ....

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2023, 09:36:47 AM »
If, IF the first year of the 12-team playoff gave us our first-ever 3-loss NC, do you think everyone freaks out and tries to change things up?
There are two separate issues here:
  • A champion with two or three losses, and
  • A really weak NC

A champion with three losses is obviously MUCH more likely because if a team like Georgia, Alabama, or Ohio State loses two or three games they'd still likely finish high enough to get in. Then they'd probably be a road favorite in the first round against a weak league champion and have two more games against relatively equal teams at neutral sites.

The expanded playoff makes a weak NC like BYU in 1984 or a team like TCU last year less likely.

That BYU team beat Michigan in their bowl. Sounds impressive, right? Well based on the program it is, but that particular Michigan team was 6-6. BYU beat them by seven but:
  • Iowa blew them out by 26
  • Ohio State beat them by 15
  • MSU beat them by 12
  • Washington beat them by 9

In the BCS era they'd have had to play Oklahoma in the BCSNCG and they'd have been embarrassed.

In the CFP era they'd have had to play #5 Nebraska in the semi-final then the winner of #2 OU or #4 Washington (#3 UF was under suspension) in the CG. Nebraska would have crushed them.

Consider TCU last year but applied to the BCS or pre-BCS era:
In the BCS era they'd have only been two very plausible game changes from an NC:
  • If they win the B12CG, and
  • UGA loses that close one they had with Mizzou,
In that case the final 1/2 are 13-0 undefeated TCU and M teams and we saw TCU take out M.

In the pre-BCS era it might even be easier. If they win the B12, they go to the Orange Bowl at 13-0. They'd be behind 13-0 Georgia and Michigan teams but Georgia would be in the Sugar Bowl and Michigan would be in the Rose Bowl. They'd just need to beat a weak ACC Champion in the Orange Bowl and have other teams take out UGA and M.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2023, 09:42:30 AM »
BTW people are missing that there are (4) rounds of playoffs here. 12 teams. Top 4 seeds (top 4 ranked conference champs) get a first round bye, which means round 1 drops from 12 to 8. Then quarterfinals, then semifinals, then MNC game. 

The top 4 seeds only play 3 games, but anyone 5 or higher could conceivably play 4. A 3-loss conference champ would have a hard time being ranked as one of the top 4 conference champs, so they'd most likely be in that 5-12 seed range. A 3-loss participant otherwise included is unlikely a conference champ, and so would be excluded from the top 4 seeds by format. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2023, 09:43:44 AM »
Yeah, a Helmet team with three losses may well get in as a 10th seed or so.  It's probable in fact.  I think usually a G5 team is the 12th seed.  The G5s have been raided by the B12 already.  Let's imagine Alabama loses to Tenn and LSU, both of whom are top ten, and then loses in the CG to a top ranked UGA.  They are a respectable 10-3 and would be a 10 or 11 seed I think with a very solid team.  They then play at the 5 or 6 seed, say it's USC, and win.  They'd be very dangerous at that point.

utee94

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2023, 10:00:39 AM »
BTW people are missing that there are (4) rounds of playoffs here. 12 teams. Top 4 seeds (top 4 ranked conference champs) get a first round bye, which means round 1 drops from 12 to 8. Then quarterfinals, then semifinals, then MNC game.

The top 4 seeds only play 3 games, but anyone 5 or higher could conceivably play 4. A 3-loss conference champ would have a hard time being ranked as one of the top 4 conference champs, so they'd most likely be in that 5-12 seed range. A 3-loss participant otherwise included is unlikely a conference champ, and so would be excluded from the top 4 seeds by format.
Good point.  And it makes my point even stronger.  It's highly unlikely for an "unworthy" team to negotiate that burden, and if they did, then they've made a strong case that they're not actually "unworthy."

Envisioning how this would play out, really the most logical scenario, is a high quality team experiences a lot of injuries early in the season that costs them some wins, and then recovers later in the season and finishes at the level they should have.  I see no reason to doubt or punish that team in an era of a 12-team playoff.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Phil Steele's Top 25
« Reply #69 on: July 19, 2023, 10:12:04 AM »
Good point.  And it makes my point even stronger.  It's highly unlikely for an "unworthy" team to negotiate that burden, and if they did, then they've made a strong case that they're not actually "unworthy."

Envisioning how this would play out, really the most logical scenario, is a high quality team experiences a lot of injuries early in the season that costs them some wins, and then recovers later in the season and finishes at the level they should have.  I see no reason to doubt or punish that team in an era of a 12-team playoff.
Agreed, and what I don't like about it is that it takes away the "every game matters" feel that our sport had in the past, for example:
Let's imagine Alabama loses to Tenn and LSU, both of whom are top ten, and then loses in the CG to a top ranked UGA.  They are a respectable 10-3 and would be a 10 or 11 seed I think with a very solid team.  They then play at the 5 or 6 seed, say it's USC, and win.  They'd be very dangerous at that point.
In the 4-team CFP era, the BCS era, or the pre-BCS era that 10-3 Alabama team is not in the NC conversation. In a 12-team format they have a solid chance to win. Just so @rolltidefan knows, that isn't to pick on Bama, it is the same for all the helmets.

 

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