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Topic: Our Top Ten

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Cincydawg

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #70 on: July 14, 2023, 07:26:14 PM »
I think "back in the day", the Rose Bowl was a big deal, it had history, pageantry, and often two top teams from difference conferences competing on Jan. 1.  That is considerably diluted today, but the history remains.

I've always thought a conference championship was a Big Deal, the Goal for most programs.  The NC was "mythical" back then (and winning your conference could be shared of course).  It's a bit sad today that winning the NC is now the goal for 15-20 odd progams each season.


847badgerfan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #71 on: July 15, 2023, 09:52:03 AM »
That is in my admittedly very long post above. They did it in 1965 then started in 1968 and kept doing it.

So the Ten Year War started right as that began.
Darn. I missed that part. Sorry.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #72 on: July 15, 2023, 10:01:42 AM »
I think "back in the day", the Rose Bowl was a big deal, it had history, pageantry, and often two top teams from difference conferences competing on Jan. 1.  That is considerably diluted today, but the history remains.

I've always thought a conference championship was a Big Deal, the Goal for most programs.  The NC was "mythical" back then (and winning your conference could be shared of course).  It's a bit sad today that winning the NC is now the goal for 15-20 odd progams each season.


It still has some of that, but it lost luster when Miami and Nebraska soiled the hallowed ground in 2002.

And then 2003 when Wazzu was forced to play Oklahoma (OSU had to play in Arizona). Iowa should have gotten that invite but the Orange had first dibs and grabbed them.

That Wazzu/OU remains as the lowest attendance in Rose Bowl history, since the 1942 expansion.*

* 2021 game between Bama and ND moved to Texas as California Covid rules were/are stupid. Less that 20K watched that game in person.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #73 on: July 15, 2023, 10:06:50 AM »
To me, personally, it today is "just another major bowl".  I don't view it as unique nor special beyond that.  I would not have said that in say 1980.

And maybe that is OK.  We're in a very different world now obviously.  

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #74 on: July 16, 2023, 12:11:17 AM »
I'm just dumbfounded that two HCs so obsessed with winning seemed to let up in the RB.  
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FearlessF

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #75 on: July 16, 2023, 08:29:38 AM »
Me too 
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847badgerfan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #76 on: July 16, 2023, 10:08:13 AM »
I'm just dumbfounded that two HCs so obsessed with winning seemed to let up in the RB. 
I think we all are, to honest. It made the conference look even worse than it already was.

The Big 2/Little 8 was real until Hayden Fry was able to break through.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #77 on: July 16, 2023, 05:41:14 PM »
The All-Time Littles:
Indiana and Purdue each only have 1 outright B1G title.  N'Western has 2.
Arizona only has 1 shared PAC title and didn't go to the Rose Bowl even then.
Miss St and Kentucky have 1 SEC title...and Vandy has none.  None of the 4 recent additiions have any. 
GA Tech's 1990 NC season was also their only outright ACC title until 2009.  Virginia's only one was the year before that.  WF has 2.
TX Tech had zero outright SWC titles, Houston had 1.
Iowa St never had an outright Big 8 title, and hadn't a share of one since 1912.  Jesus.
K-State had 1 outright title....in 1934.  OK State had 1 outright as well.  The Big 8 truly had dwarves, plural.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2023, 06:03:43 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #78 on: July 17, 2023, 03:14:59 PM »
I'm just dumbfounded that two HCs so obsessed with winning seemed to let up in the RB.
I don't know that they let up. I think it was a combination of factors including:
  • The intensity for THE GAME was so strong that it simply couldn't be maintained into the next game.
  • I think, particularly earlier that Bowl games were still seen as a reward/vacation, not part of the chase. As noted above, the AP only switched to a post-bowl final poll for the 1968 season so that was new when the Ten Year War started in 1969. Also, in 1968 the final regular season #1 (Ohio State) beat #2 (USC) in their bowl so there was no change. Same in 1969 when #1 Texas beat #9 Notre Dame. The first time #1 actually changed as a result of the bowls was 1970 when #1 Texas and #2 Ohio State both lost their bowls (to #6 ND in the Cotton Bowl and #12 Stanford in the Rose Bowl). #3 Nebraska beat #5 LSU in the Orange Bowl and jumped up to #1.
  • I think that the general weakness of the "little eight" hindered the Buckeyes and Wolverines in that the conference slate didn't really expose any weaknesses that needed work.
  • Changing times: Woody and to a lesser extent Bo stuck with their outdated offenses in part because they were good enough to win nearly all of their games. In that era of the Big Ten you *MIGHT* occasionally see a team that could pass effectively but those teams generally couldn't run or play D so Woody and Bo just ground them into dust. Then when they got to Pasadena they ran into (usually) USC teams that could run, pass, and play D.
  • Dumb luck:  Over the course of the 10 years of the Ten Year War the Buckeyes and Wolverines went 1-9 in Rose Bowls. The one win was a 42-21 blowout. The losses were by:
  • 1 M to Stanford in 71
  • 1 tOSU to USC in 74
  • 7 M to USC in 69
  • 7 M to Washington in 77
  • 7 M to USC in 78
  • 8 M to USC in 76
  • 10 tOSU to Stanford in 70
  • 13 tOSU to UCLA in 75 (beat them earlier in the season)
  • 25 tOSU to USC in 72

The Buckeyes and Wolverines were competitive, it isn't like the Pac Champ just romped every year.

GopherRock

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #79 on: July 17, 2023, 03:45:54 PM »
I think "back in the day", the Rose Bowl was a big deal, it had history, pageantry, and often two top teams from difference conferences competing on Jan. 1.  That is considerably diluted today, but the history remains.

I can assure you that the Rose Bowl remains a big deal among teams that don't regularly play for MNCs.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #80 on: July 17, 2023, 03:47:49 PM »
I don't know that they let up. I think it was a combination of factors including:
  • The intensity for THE GAME was so strong that it simply couldn't be maintained into the next game.
  • I think, particularly earlier that Bowl games were still seen as a reward/vacation, not part of the chase. As noted above, the AP only switched to a post-bowl final poll for the 1968 season so that was new when the Ten Year War started in 1969. Also, in 1968 the final regular season #1 (Ohio State) beat #2 (USC) in their bowl so there was no change. Same in 1969 when #1 Texas beat #9 Notre Dame. The first time #1 actually changed as a result of the bowls was 1970 when #1 Texas and #2 Ohio State both lost their bowls (to #6 ND in the Cotton Bowl and #12 Stanford in the Rose Bowl). #3 Nebraska beat #5 LSU in the Orange Bowl and jumped up to #1.
  • I think that the general weakness of the "little eight" hindered the Buckeyes and Wolverines in that the conference slate didn't really expose any weaknesses that needed work.
  • Changing times: Woody and to a lesser extent Bo stuck with their outdated offenses in part because they were good enough to win nearly all of their games. In that era of the Big Ten you *MIGHT* occasionally see a team that could pass effectively but those teams generally couldn't run or play D so Woody and Bo just ground them into dust. Then when they got to Pasadena they ran into (usually) USC teams that could run, pass, and play D.
  • Dumb luck:  Over the course of the 10 years of the Ten Year War the Buckeyes and Wolverines went 1-9 in Rose Bowls. The one win was a 42-21 blowout. The losses were by:
  • 1 M to Stanford in 71
  • 1 tOSU to USC in 74
  • 7 M to USC in 69
  • 7 M to Washington in 77
  • 7 M to USC in 78
  • 8 M to USC in 76
  • 10 tOSU to Stanford in 70
  • 13 tOSU to UCLA in 75 (beat them earlier in the season)
  • 25 tOSU to USC in 72

The Buckeyes and Wolverines were competitive, it isn't like the Pac Champ just romped every year.
#1 above:  many here have insisted to me that isn't a thing
#2:  idk, they're keeping score, aren't they?  The one good thing about Mullen (which he threw out the window in the Cotton Bowl vs OU) was if they're keeping score, we might as well win.
#3:  I can totally buy that
#4:  I think that aligns with #3
#5:  Ehh...I'd buy that if it was 4-6 or 3-7, but 1-9?  1-9 is too severe for me to buy that.  What's more likely is simply that USC was a program above, aka the SEC has been in our modern era.
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EastAthens

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #81 on: July 17, 2023, 03:59:48 PM »
I think Washington, Fla. State and A&M are being underrated by most going into this year and Clemson is being overrated. I don't think Clemson is as good as they were last year after they lost those great dlinemen and they got spanked by Tennessee with those linemen. I know hope springs eternal with A&M but they had the best dline class last year I have ever seen and they are all back and have a year in the SEC under their belts. For the 1st time in years I think the PAC is absolutely loaded and I think Washington is the best of that bunch with Penix and their whole defense mostly back. 

FearlessF

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #82 on: July 17, 2023, 04:29:39 PM »
#1 above:  many here have insisted to me that isn't a thing
#2:  idk, they're keeping score, aren't they?  The one good thing about Mullen (which he threw out the window in the Cotton Bowl vs OU) was if they're keeping score, we might as well win.
#3:  I can totally buy that
#4:  I think that aligns with #3
#5:  Ehh...I'd buy that if it was 4-6 or 3-7, but 1-9?  1-9 is too severe for me to buy that.  What's more likely is simply that USC was a program above, aka the SEC has been in our modern era.
I think #5 is more probable than #3 and #4,
Huskers and Sooners had #3 and #4 in the Big 8
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #83 on: July 17, 2023, 04:46:27 PM »
I think #5 is more probable than #3 and #4,
Huskers and Sooners had #3 and #4 in the Big 8
I'm gonna look into it....see the record of the best non UM/OSU team each season vs UM/OSU.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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