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Topic: Our Top Ten

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2023, 11:32:38 AM »
Other notes:
GA Tech had some comically bad choke-jobs vs UGA in the 90s.  My uncle loves Tech and never picks them to win because of how incapable they were of winding up with more points after 60 min.
.
1945 Army routinely started games with their backups, only to bring in the starters in the 2nd quarter.  Unique situation, but totally demoralizing for the other team.  
Reminds me of the 2002 Orange Bowl.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #57 on: July 14, 2023, 12:05:35 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2023, 11:29:46 AM
And then, they remarkably boat race OSU 2 years in a row and.....get embarrassed on the biggest stage both years.
I remain perplexed by this. Michigan has obviously looked much better in THE GAME the last two years but Ohio State has looked better in those regular seasons otherwise and much better in the last two postseason. I still don't know why, some possibilities:
  • Michigan simply overperformed in THE GAME the last two years, or
  • Ohio State simply underperformed in THE GAME the last two years, or
  • Michigan simply underperformed in their CFP games, or
  • Ohio State simply overperformed in their RB and CFP game, or
  • Is it a matchup issue?
  • Something else?
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2023, 11:29:46 AM
They've basically done jack squat in the past 73 years.
They claim 11 NC's with the ninth and 10th coming consecutively in 1947 and 1948 and . . . Only one since (1997).

That said, and as much as I love to pick on Michigan, to be fair, they haven't been awful over those years, they just haven't broken through to the top as frequently as one would expect. Stassen hasn't updated to include 2022 yet but here are the top teams by winning percentage from 1949-2021:
  • tOSU
  • OU
  • BAMA
  • PSU
  • M
  • UNL
  • TX
  • USC
  • ND
  • UGA
  • FSU
  • UF
  • LSU
  • TN
  • Auburn
  • Clemson
  • Miami, FL
I'm fairly certain that the other 16 members of that top-17 have each won at least two and a number of them are way beyond that.

From 1949-2022 there were 1,107 AP Polls. Michigan appeared in 811 or nearly three of every four. That trails tOSU and Oklahoma but leads Bama, ND, USC, TX, UNL, PSU, etc.

In that same time frame the Wolverines were in the top-10 43% of the time (476/1,107). That is sixth most. They were in the top-5 in nearly a quarter of the polls (269/1,107), that is also sixth best.

When we move up to appearances at #1, Michigan falters. They've "only" been #1 in 25 of the last 1,107 polls. That is tied with Clemson for 14th nationally and trails Michigan State.


I can't explain why Michigan hasn't been able to convert overall success into NC's for the last three-quarters of a century but their overall numbers are absolutely blueblood quality.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2023, 12:21:21 PM »
Good point, and that's what makes it all the more alarming. 
A team with their win % "should" have 3-4-5 NCs.
That ceiling they hit isn't experienced by the other bluebloods over such a long period of time.
.
Win % aside, you could almost, ALMOST say UM is 1 split NC and 20 years away from being Minnesota.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2023, 12:26:46 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
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Cincydawg

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2023, 12:27:14 PM »
i "THINK" UGA is vulnerable to truly elite QB play, versus a more rounded team with very good lines and quite good QB play.  Ohio State was a poor matchup for them, while UM was a good matchup.  Bama has been a poor matchup for that reason (among others).  For some reason, Michigan, who is built like UGA in many ways, is a poor matchup for Ohio State, have not figured that one out yet.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2023, 01:10:18 PM »
Bama was a bully.  It's HARD to play bully ball and overtake the top bully.
UGA has done that.
UM plays bully ball and it works 90% of the time.  But they're sill behind the SEC bully teams.  
Even tho Saban switched to the high passing offense, they still have a line full of 5* fatties on both lines.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2023, 01:48:09 PM »
Bo treated bowl games like a vacation for his kids, and it showed.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2023, 01:50:00 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2023, 01:48:09 PM
Bo treated bowl games like a vacation for his kids, and it showed.
Is that where you guys got your RB obsession from?  Getting there was the prize?  The NC be damned?
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847badgerfan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2023, 01:57:05 PM »
Getting there was definitely the prize. Look at the results.



Starting in 1970 and going through 1993, the PAC won all but 5 times. Michigan won in 1993, under Gary Moeller.


For Alvarez, getting there and WINNING was the prize. Wisconsin won in 1994, 1999 and 2000 under King Barry.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2023, 02:02:20 PM »
No one thought to take Bo aside and say, "hey, maybe we might try to win?"!!?!
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847badgerfan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #65 on: July 14, 2023, 02:25:53 PM »
Nobody told Bo what to do about anything. If anyone questioned him, they were out the door.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2023, 04:53:00 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2023, 01:50:00 PM
Is that where you guys got your RB obsession from?  Getting there was the prize?  The NC be damned?
I think a part of it was that the rivalry simply got too big. Woody and Bo were intense and that intensity was focused 24/7/365 on beating the other in November. Everything else became secondary.

A couple data points to try to support that theory:
Woody ended up 4-4 in eight Rose Bowl games but note a distinction:
  • Woody went 3-0 in Rose Bowl games from his hiring at Ohio State (1951 season) until Bo started at Michigan (1969 season).
  • Woody went 1-4 in Rose Bowl games during the "Ten Year War".

Bo was only slightly worse during the "Ten Year War", (0-5).

During that time they dominated the league so thoroughly that there really wasn't any focus on anything other than each other and I think they had a hard time breaking that mentality in January.

In those 10 years the entire rest of the league had a grand combined total of nine wins over tOSU/Michigan:
  • 5 by MSU, 5-13
  • 2 by Purdue, 2-14
  • 1 by Northwestern, 1-13
  • 1 by Minnesota, 1-19
  • 0 by Illinois, 0-20
  • 0 by Wisconsin, 0-18
  • 0 by Iowa, 0-16
  • 0 by Indiana, 0-14
I also do think that the sport was more regional then and the idea of a "National Championship" was somewhat foreign to those guys.

Releasing the final AP Poll AFTER the bowl games was done in 1965 then dropped then resumed in 1968 and continues to the present day. Prior to that I think the Bowl trip was seen as a reward for a great season, not as an important competition.

Finally I present the 1975 season:
Ohio State was #4 in the preseason poll and moved up to #3 before playing a game.

On September 20 the Buckeyes beat a pretty solid Penn State team (17-9 in Columbus) and passed USC to claim the #2 spot.

On October 4 the Buckeyes moved to 4-0 with a 41-20 blowout of #13 UCLA in LA and that pushed them to #1 (passed Oklahoma).

That was a surprisingly tough OOC schedule considering that it included two teams that finished in the top-10 (#5 UCLA and #10 PSU).

Ohio State won the rest of their games including 21-14 at #4 Michigan and remained #1.

The #1 Buckeyes headed to Pasadena for a rematch with #11 UCLA. Recall from above that Ohio State obliterated the Bruins in LA on October 4.

In the Rose Bowl on January 1, 1976 UCLA beat Ohio State 23-10.

It is hard to explain how an Ohio State team that was 21 points better than UCLA in October was 13 points worse that UCLA in January but it happened. I think the anticlimactic feel of it probably contributed. To a lot of people, Ohio State's season came to a successful conclusion when they won a top-4 matchup in Ann Arbor.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2023, 05:02:18 PM »
Also, when did the AP start doing rankings after games that were at one time considered exhibitions? Sometime in the 60's, yes?
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #68 on: July 14, 2023, 05:07:47 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2023, 05:02:18 PM
Also, when did the AP start doing rankings after games that were at one time considered exhibitions? Sometime in the 60's, yes?
That is in my admittedly very long post above. They did it in 1965 then started in 1968 and kept doing it.

So the Ten Year War started right as that began. 
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FearlessF

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Re: Our Top Ten
« Reply #69 on: July 14, 2023, 05:13:14 PM »
Not an excuse in my opinion. 
It's a ball game 
And it's actually a game on a grand stage vs a good opponent. 

Nothing to b proud of 
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