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Topic: Other Power Conference CG races

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medinabuckeye1

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Other Power Conference CG races
« on: November 18, 2024, 10:02:08 AM »
I covered the B1G separately.  The B1G and the SEC are more-or-less guaranteed to get the top two seeds in the CFP so I'll start here with the SEC, the contenders:
5-1 Texas (lost to UGA):

  • vs 1-6 Kentucky this week
  • at 5-1 aTm next week
5-1 aTm (lost to USCe):
  • at 1-5 Auburn this week
  • vs 5-1 Texas next week
6-2 Georgia (done with SEC play) (lost to Bama and OleMiss):
  • vs UMASS this week
  • vs GaTech next week
5-2 Tennessee (lost to Arky and UGA):
  • vs UTEP this week
  • at 3-3 Vandy next week
4-2 Alabama (lost to Vandy and TN):
  • at 1-5 Oklahoma this week
  • vs 1-5 Auburn next week
4-2 Ole Miss (lost to KY and LSU):
  • at 3-4 Florida this week
  • vs 0-6 MissSt next week


The rest of the league have at least three losses and are thus eliminated because:

  • Georgia is done at 6-2, and
  • The Texas/aTm winner can finish no worse than 6-2

I'm getting tiebreakers here from an article that the Worldwide Leader did on tiebreakers for the various conferences.  They seem to have gotten the B1G tiebreakers right so I'm just assuming that they got the rest of them right as well.  If I am missing something that one of our SEC posters ( @Cincydawg , @OrangeAfroMan , @jgvol , @rolltidefan , etc) has any corrections or input, please provide it.  

First things first, there WILL BE a 2-loss team in the SECCG because there are only two 1-loss teams left and they play each other on the Saturday after Thanksgiving.  

Texas and aTm should win their games this weekend (vs Kentucky and at Auburn respectively).  Assuming that they do, the winner of the Texas/aTm game is in as the #1 seed as the only 7-1 team.  The loser drops into a tie with Georgia and any of the rest of the two-loss teams that win out.  None of them play each other so that could be just Georgia or all four (five including the TX/aTm loser) or anything in between.  

In a two-team tie the first tiebreaker is H2H so, for example, if Texas were to lose to aTm and finish tied with ONLY Georgia, the Dawgs would go because they beat the Longhorns.  

The next tiebreaker is winning percentage against common SEC opponents which is all over the map depending on which two teams we are talking about.  

Next, similar to the B1G, is record against the best common SEC opponent, then the next, etc.  

Then, similar to the B1G again, is SoS defined as combined conference win % of conference opponents.  I have no idea how that shakes out and I'm not going to go figure it out but it is probably posted somewhere, maybe on an SEC board?  

The penultimate two-team tiebreaker is relative scoring margin against all conference opponents.  But it says "from SportSource Analytics" so I don't *THINK* this is simply Points For minus Points Against.  I *THINK* that "relative" indicates that you get more credit for playing a better schedule.  I'm not sure how this works exactly.  

The final two-team tiebreaker is "random draw".  

In the (VERY likely) event of a tie involving three or more teams the tiebreakers are:
  • H2H but only if all tied teams are common opponents (they aren't) or if one defeated each of the others.  Up to here, I think this is identical to the B1G rule.  Then the SEC adds a caveat that if one of the tied teams lost to all of the others, that team is eliminated.  
  • Record against all common conference opponents.  
  • Record against best SEC opponent, then next, etc.  
  • SoS, same as above, record of SEC opponents.  
  • Higher relative scoring margin against all conference opponents (from SportSource Analytics).  
  • Random Draw


There is a LOT to unpack there so I honestly have no idea how it will shake out.  

ACC:
The ACC is considerably simpler than the SEC because there are only three contenders.  Clemson is 7-1 and done with ACC play.  SMU is 6-0 and Miami is 5-1.  Since SMU can do no worse than 6-2 and Clemson is 7-1, the rest of the league is eliminated because they all have 3+ losses.  So, the contenders:
6-0 SMU:
  • at 3-3 Virginia this weekend
  • vs 1-5 California next weekend
7-1 Clemson (done with ACC Play) (lost to Louisville):
  • vs The Citadel this weekend
  • vs USCe next weeend
5-1 Miami (lost to GaTech):
  • vs 2-4 Wake this weekend
  • at 4-3 Cuse next weekend

SMU should win out and if they do then their CG opponent will be either Clemson or Miami.  Miami would win a two-team tie with Clemson because Miami beat Louisville and Clemson didn't play GaTech (it is record against common opponents).  Ie, if all three win out, the ACCCG is SMU vs Miami.  I think that Clemson would also lose a two-way tie with SMU (because they beat Louisville as well) so basically Clemson needs either:
  • Miami to lose once, or
  • SMU to lose twice.  

B12:
This one might be even messier than the SEC.  BYU and Colorado are both 6-1 but the B12 plays nine league games so both could theoretically finish 6-3. Consequently, those two plus the two-loss teams (ASU and ISU) plus the three-loss teams (Baylor, KSU, TCU, TxTech, WVU) are all mathematically in the race.  

As a practical matter and to keep this from being an even longer post, I don't think that a 3-loss team is going to make the B12CG so it is between:
6-1 BYU:
  • at 5-2 ASU this weekend
  • vs 3-4 Houston next weekend
6-1 Colorado:
  • at 3-4 Kansas this weekend
  • vs 0-7 OkSU next weekend
5-2 ASU (where is SDF?):
  • vs 6-1 BYU this weekend
  • at 2-5 Zona next weekend
5-2 Iowa State:
  • at 1-6 Utah this weekend
  • vs 4-3 KSU next weekend


BYU and Colorado obviously control their own destiny but if my understanding of the tiebreakers is correct, ASU does as well.  It looks like ISU needs help and the others are practically though not mathematically eliminated.  

Cincydawg

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Re: Other Power Conference CG races
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2024, 10:06:01 AM »
The SEC CG is probably going to be Texas - Alabama.  This assumes a lot of things of course.

utee94

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Re: Other Power Conference CG races
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2024, 10:06:20 AM »
I covered the B1G separately.  The B1G and the SEC are more-or-less guaranteed to get the top two seeds in the CFP so I'll start here with the SEC, the contenders...


...There is a LOT to unpack there so I honestly have no idea how it will shake out. 
Horns are gonna win this weekend and then beat the goose-stepping sheet-humpers in Collie Station, so your 2nd-place analysis can start there. ;)

utee94

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Re: Other Power Conference CG races
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2024, 10:12:04 AM »
The SEC CG is probably going to be Texas - Alabama.  This assumes a lot of things of course.
Man that would be spicy indeed.  Sark is 0-fer against DeBoer in the post-season.  

rolltidefan

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Re: Other Power Conference CG races
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2024, 04:25:38 PM »
The SEC CG is probably going to be Texas - Alabama.  This assumes a lot of things of course.
someone on reddit made a site that lets you input results for remaining games, and it gives seccg participants based on results.

http://bball.notnothing.net/sec.php?sport=fb

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Other Power Conference CG races
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2024, 05:03:49 PM »
someone on reddit made a site that lets you input results for remaining games, and it gives seccg participants based on results.

http://bball.notnothing.net/sec.php?sport=fb
Would you care to provide something of an "executive summary"?  

I've heard from @Cincydawg but also elsewhere that apparently Bama has a pretty favorable tiebreaker situation but I haven't looked into it enough to know if that is true and why.  

Cincydawg

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Re: Other Power Conference CG races
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2024, 05:56:53 PM »
Conference opponents winning pct.

jgvol

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Re: Other Power Conference CG races
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2024, 07:41:51 PM »
Found the tiebreaker @medinabuckeye1



Cincydawg

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Re: Other Power Conference CG races
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2024, 05:48:31 AM »
I figure it best to let it sort itself out rather than delve deeply into the rules.  There is something about conference winning percentage at about the third tier that gives Bama an edge apparently.

I'm hearing from Josh Pate (who isn't a terrible mediot in my view) that losing the CG "should not" knock one out of the playoff.  His view is IF that happens obviously, the SEC/B1G will blow this thing up, which is what they want anyway, he says.  He has stated for years that the ultimate goal is some mega-thing that leaves out the weaker teams without much support.  I catch him on you tube at night fairly often to see his PoV.  It usually seems pretty logical to me.

Cincydawg

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Re: Other Power Conference CG races
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2024, 07:12:30 AM »
The SEC went bonkers last night, UGA is in the CG against the Texas-A&M winner at A&M.  UGA could lose next week to Tech, win the CG, be 10-3 and get a bye.

Cincydawg

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Re: Other Power Conference CG races
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2024, 07:17:55 AM »
Texas was demolished by Georgia, its only game against a team with seven or more wins this year.
Ole Miss beat Georgia, but has lost to Kentucky and Florida.
Alabama beat Georgia, but has lost to Vanderbilt and Oklahoma.
Tennessee beat Alabama, but lost to Arkansas.
A&M beat Missouri and LSU, both ranked in the top 10 at the time, but lost to Auburn.
South Carolina's key wins -- A&M and Missouri -- don't look so impressive anymore, while the teams the Gamecocks lost to (LSU, Bama and Ole Miss) all have ugly losses themselves now.



utee94

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Re: Other Power Conference CG races
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2024, 07:47:13 AM »
Texas was demolished by Georgia, its only game against a team with seven or more wins this year.
This is not true.  I'm not gonna hang my hat on a win over Colorado State, but to keep it factual, Texas beat the Rams 52-0 in the season opener, and the Rams are currently 7-4.

Cincydawg

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Re: Other Power Conference CG races
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2024, 07:48:46 AM »
I guess they meant in conference play, obviously A&M has a noncon loss to ND.

utee94

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Re: Other Power Conference CG races
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2024, 07:55:40 AM »
I guess they meant in conference play, obviously A&M has a noncon loss to ND.
The quote seems weird all the way around, not mentioning A&M's other loss to South Carolina, not mentioning Tennessee's other loss.

If they're trying to paint a picture of the "chaos" in the SEC, seems like they should include all the relevant data.  Right now it just looks like they're attempting to create a false equivalency between all the SEC 2-loss suckbutts, and a team with only 1 SEC loss.  And more importantly, a team that DIDN'T lose to ANY bottom dwellers like Auburn, Florida, OU, Arkansas, or Vandy.

 

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