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Topic: OT - Weird History

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MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3192 on: March 29, 2024, 09:06:24 AM »
*Panamax is generally defined as:
  • 965' length.
  • 106' width
  • 39.5' draft

Iowa Class Battleships squeezed in at 108' 2" wide and also with a draft too deep for the canal but they had to unload ballast, fuel, and stores/ammunition to get their draft down to the limit then reload once through.
Jeebis one would think Yamamoto would have his subs there licking their chops - if it wasn't twice as far from Japan as Hawaii. That plan would have made sense logistically during the early stages of the Pacific war, when the US Navy had half of its 6 carriers on the opposite oceans . There were air bases and coastal guns at both ends of the canal. Still it would have been a great choke point for ambush. The IJN had quite advanced machines and "long lance" torpedoes at the time but didn't coordinate their deployments effectively from what I've read. In hindsight strategically perhaps they should have skipped speading themselves to thin around the vastness of the Pacific. But prolly didn't think the USA could reload at break neck speed. Logistics,planning and industry probably caught up to Hirohito's over confidence. But what if......


Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3193 on: March 29, 2024, 09:35:11 AM »
Submarines struggle to operate in WW 2 where there were decent land airbases nearby, especially if planes had radar.  I imagine we pretty well saturated the exits of the Canal with air cover early in the war.  And I don't know how long a Japanese sub could "linger" due to fuel and supply issues.

One probable mistake Yamamoto made after Pearl Harbor was the attack in the Indian Ocean, those weren't very strategic I think.

MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3194 on: March 29, 2024, 09:49:38 AM »
Yup,Britain i suppose was somewhat fortunate as Burma was pretty far from Japan and to supply the IJF there they had to run US Pacific Fleet gauntlet to get supplied.US Pacific forces pretty well reclaimed alot European holdings there & around the Pacific. So IJF established there were almost dying on the vine the day they landed .
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3195 on: March 29, 2024, 10:13:01 AM »
Jeebis one would think Yamamoto would have his subs there licking their chops - if it wasn't twice as far from Japan as Hawaii. That plan would have made sense logistically during the early stages of the Pacific war, when the US Navy had half of its 6 carriers on the opposite oceans . There were air bases and coastal guns at both ends of the canal. Still it would have been a great choke point for ambush. The IJN had quite advanced machines and "long lance" torpedoes at the time but didn't coordinate their deployments effectively from what I've read. In hindsight strategically perhaps they should have skipped speading themselves to thin around the vastness of the Pacific. But prolly didn't think the USA could reload at break neck speed. Logistics,planning and industry probably caught up to Hirohito's over confidence. But what if......
They actually built a submarine that could carry a plane and launch it. The intention was to use the submarine to get within range of the Panama Canal then launch the plane with munitions to destroy some critical part of the canal.

If that had existed and been functional in time to use it simultaneously with Pearl Harbor and all the rest of their attacks on December 7/8, 1941 it might have actually worked.

At the end of the day, even if it had worked I don't think it would have been more than a relatively minor annoyance for the United States. The US built the canal so I consider it axiomatic that the US could repair any damage done to the canal and realistically one plane couldn't do all that much damage even with a direct hit. It might, however, have put the canal out of action for a few months which would have drastically slowed the US response because Hornet and other ships then in the Atlantic would either have had to stay in the Atlantic until the canal was repaired, go around Africa, or go around South America.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3196 on: March 29, 2024, 02:55:00 PM »
Found this, thought it might be of interest. 

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3197 on: March 29, 2024, 10:22:08 PM »
for Badge, when he buys a bigger yacht 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3198 on: March 30, 2024, 03:55:27 AM »
The Japanese shelled Calfironia a bit from subs.

When Japanese submarines attacked California and Oregon | We Are The Mighty

On August 15, 1942, I-25 left Yokosuka to make what would be the final Japanese attack on the American coast. The attack was reprisal for the Doolittle Raid on Tokyo in April of that year. On September 9, I-25 launched its E14Y "Glen" seaplane. Piloted by Warrant Flying Officer Nobuo Fujita, the plane dropped two 76-kilogram incendiary bombs on a forest near Brookings, Oregon. Though the mission was meant to trigger wildfires, light winds and typically wet Pacific Northwest weather kept the fire from spreading. The attack remains the only time an enemy aircraft has bombed the mainland United States.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3199 on: March 30, 2024, 05:28:37 AM »
The whole attempt just illustrates how utterly hopeless the Japanese were. They dropped two bombs in the hope that those would start forest fires. 

I had to Google it but 76 kg is ~167#. So the total bomb load was a hair over 300# and this was supposed to work?

The pictured B29 carried 5,000 to 20,000 pounds of bombs depending upon range and the United States built almost 4,000 of them and sent them over Japan in waves of hundreds of planes. 

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3200 on: March 30, 2024, 05:56:07 AM »
Even a small incendiary can be problematic if it hits the right spot, but it would need a lot of dry tinder to amount to much.  And yes, the US later dropped far more ordinance.

Our bombing raids would start with HE to scatter wood from houses and then incendiary to burn it, which worked.  More died in the Tokyo fire bombing than at Hiroshima.

History’s deadliest air raid happened in Tokyo during World War II and you’ve probably never heard of it | CNN




Between 1:30 a.m. and 3:00 a.m. the main force of American B-29s unleashed 500,000 M-69 bombs, each one clustered in groups of 38 and weighing six pounds.

The clusters would separate during their descent and small parachutes would carry each bomblet to the ground.





FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3201 on: March 30, 2024, 08:35:51 AM »
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Hymen Lipman Patents Pencil with Attached Eraser (1858)
In prehistoric times, lumps of colored earth or chalk were used as markers. The so-called lead pencil—a rod of graphite encased in wood—first came into use in the 16th century. However, it was not until the 19th century that the eraser was added—an innovation that earned Hymen Lipman a patent in 1858. In 1862, he sold his patent to Joseph Reckendorfer for $100,000.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3202 on: March 30, 2024, 05:14:41 PM »
The smallest town in the United States is located in Nebraska. Monowi, NE is home to 1 resident, Elsie Eiler who is the towns Mayor, Librarian, and Bar Owner . . .



"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3203 on: March 30, 2024, 11:32:07 PM »
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3204 on: March 31, 2024, 05:02:51 AM »

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3205 on: March 31, 2024, 09:18:58 AM »
ARTICLE OF THE DAY: 

The Plague Riot
In the spring of 1771, an outbreak of bubonic plague swept through Moscow. Authorities instituted a number of policies in an attempt to contain the epidemic, but the severe measures were unpopular with the general public. Factories and stores were shut down, and the economy was essentially at a standstill. Fearful, and faced with acute food shortages, the people took to the streets in an uprising that would later be known as the Plague Riot.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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