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Topic: OT - Weird History

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2758 on: December 18, 2023, 11:11:54 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 12:14:15 PM
@MrNubbz are you willing to admit:

  • Churchill did not order Repulse and POW out of Singapore.
  • Japan did not have 18 carriers in Decembe, 1941.
  • Japan did not have 11 Fleet Carriers in Decembe, 1941.
All three of these are false statements that you implied (#1) or made #2 and #3).
You STILL haven't answered . . .
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MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2759 on: December 18, 2023, 01:02:42 PM »
Quote from: GopherRock on December 18, 2023, 11:11:43 AM
My only contribution to this is my grandmother's family lived with the rest of her family on the Pearl City Peninsula in late 1941.

I have no contribution.  Some history--not really weird, tho--is that both my grandfathers served during this war.  Paternal grandpa was in the Navy and served somewhere in the South Pacific, I think.  I don't know that he ever saw any combat.  Maternal grandpa was an Army medic and served in France, maybe some other places, but mostly France.  He came home with several cool photos of France, but also a helmet with a dent from the butt of a German soldier's rifle who, thankfully, did not attack my grandpa any further when he saw he was a medic.  My grandma gave me his helmet and it still gives me shivers to this day.  Every time I see that dent I think how easily things might have been very different.  Just a little different on the battlefield that day and I'd be erased from history, Marty McFly style.  
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MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2760 on: December 18, 2023, 06:09:50 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 11:11:54 AM
You STILL haven't answered . . .
Already did 3-4-5X quit moving the goalposts Agnes and take your laxative. From actual historians not named MB
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2761 on: December 18, 2023, 07:11:57 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on December 18, 2023, 06:09:50 PM
Already did 3-4-5X quit moving the goalposts Agnes and take your laxative. From actual historians not named MB
None of your sources say that Churchill ordered Repulse and POW out of Singapore 3 days after Pearl Harbor. 

Japan had six fleet carriers not 11.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2762 on: December 18, 2023, 07:17:05 PM »
Hint:
Nobody ordered Repulse and POW to do anything three days after Pearl Harbor because they were sunk two days after Pearl Harbor. 
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MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2763 on: December 18, 2023, 07:35:19 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 07:17:05 PM
Hint:
💩💩💩
💩💩💩
 I thought you may have an expiration date - write down what you know,that should leave you plenty of free time to catch up





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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2764 on: December 18, 2023, 09:08:07 PM »
@MrNubbz you made a mistake, it is OK.

Admit your mistake so we can move on
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2765 on: December 18, 2023, 09:09:05 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on December 10, 2023, 02:25:40 PM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
Come on @MrNubbz 

You can't defend these obvious mistakes. 
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MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2766 on: December 18, 2023, 11:10:39 PM »


Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 12:53:46 PM

@Cincydawg maybe you can get somewhere with Nubbz.
Quote from: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 01:43:48 PM

Not my job.  I think it interesting to discuss. 
Man everyone that saw it for what it was - Appealing for help while you grasping at straws - shameful I'm sure you'd agree :D


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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2767 on: December 18, 2023, 11:17:09 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on December 18, 2023, 11:10:39 PM
Man everyone that saw it for what it was - Appealing for help while you grasping at straws - shameful I'm sure you'd agree :D
@MrNubbz 

What straw?


You claimed that Churchill sent Repulse and POW out three days after Pearl Harbor. 

The fact is that Repulse and POW were sunk two days after Pearl Harbor.

Do you disagree?
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MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2768 on: December 18, 2023, 11:42:56 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on December 11, 2023, 10:34:26 AM

Churchill's orders regarding the two ships were obviously issued LONG before Pearl Harbor. The ships left England weeks before Pearl Harbor and Churchill's control ended then.
Your misleading bullshit is the stuff of legend.
🔸The Ark Royal he was going to send along to Force Z got sunk in Scapa Flow November 14 by a German Sub
🔸The HMS Indomitable ran aground by Jamaica November 3 it went to Norfalk Va. for repairs and didn't even make it to the Sri Lanka until January'42
🔸The HMS Formidable didn't join the fleet until December 12
🔸The HMS Victorious  was conducting operations in the North Atlantic
CHurchill absolutely knew-KNEW the aircraft situation.And didn't bother calling Force Z back
So if you didn't know any of that then you are ignorant,if you did you're willing deceitful - what is it? Nevermind it's the Holidays and I don't want use Drew's bandwidth or subject the others to your waterboarding diatribes


Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on December 14, 2023, 05:53:02 PM
  • Again, not the Prime Minister's nor even the First Lord of the Admiralty's job to determine and dictate local tactical decisions.  If you want to say somebody was stupid and that stupidity caused the loss of Repulse and POW that is fine but your insistence of directing this criticism at Prime Minister Churchill is bizarre. 
Take a deep breath - for about 20 minutes.Your insistance at defending this brandy plied hack at the highest level is worse given the fact you've had 81 yrs of what in your case is appropriately titled HIND sight.


« Last Edit: December 19, 2023, 02:16:45 AM by MrNubbz »
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2769 on: December 18, 2023, 11:54:23 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on December 18, 2023, 11:42:56 PM
Your misleading bullshit is the stuff of legend.
🔸The Ark Royal he was going to send along to Force Z got sunk in Scapa Flow November 14 by a german Sub
🔸The HMS Indomitable ran aground by Jamaica November 3 it went to Norfalk Va. for repairs and didn't even make it to the Sri Lanka until January'42

🔸The HMS Formidable didn't join the fleet until December 12
🔸The HMS Victorious  was conducting operations in the North Atlantic
CHurchill absolutely knew-KNEW the aircraft situation.And didn't bother calling Force Z back
So if you didn't know any of that then you are ignorant,if you did you're willing deceitful - what is it? Nevermind it's the Holidays and I don't want use Drew's bandwidth or subject the others to your waterboarding diatribes

Take a deep breath - for about 20 minutes.Your insistance at defending this brandy plied hack at the highest level is worse given the fact you've had 81 yrs of what in your case is appropriately titled HIND sight.

Churchill screwed up knowing-KNOWING that Pearl just got leveled,simultaneaosy
I know all of the above.

None of it changes the fact that Churchill didn't send Repulse and POW out after Pearl Harbor.

As I've said repeatedly, there are plenty of legitimate criticisms of Churchill but this simply isn't one of them.

After Pearl Harbor Cunningham (not Churchill) sent Repulse and POW out.

You were also wrong about the timeline again because you claimed that Churchill did this three days after Pearl Harbor but nobody ordered Repulse and POW to do anything three days after Pearl Harbor because they were sunk two days after Pearl Harbor.

Just admit you made a mistake.
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MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2770 on: December 19, 2023, 12:28:11 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 07:11:57 PM
None of your sources say that Churchill ordered Repulse and POW out of Singapore 3 days after Pearl Harbor.

🔸On December 7th Pearl Harbor flattened Much of the US Pacific Fleet lost
🔸 Simultaneously(differnt time zones)

🔸IJF attacked Malaya after landing after marching thru Thailand

🔸IJF land and attack the Dutch East Indies

🔸Battle of Hong Kong begins as 2.5 Divions land in the Phillipines

🔸IJF take the Gilbert Islands also Battles of Prachaub & Kirikhan begin

🔸IJF take the GIs garrisoned at Shanqhai & Tientsin

🔸Luzon's airfields are getting bombed and Bangkok is occupied

🔸Landings in Tarawa & Makin Islands

🔸Aerial Attacks on Hong Kong,Guam,Phillipines,Shanghai,Singapore,Wake Island

Churchill knowingly KNOWINGLY - appraised of all of this about the same time as FDR. But make NO mistake it is of his making w/o aircover and enemy operations exploding all around the Pacific Rim and he still didn't order them with two full days to at least get out of range.And Force Z were too damn brave and honorable to ask. 



 But you can't admit it because you've been wagging your tongue to the contrary for way too long .Again,obstinateness is not an argument. Watch Sun Tzu's Art of War on YT he damn sure would have pointed right at Churchill. Odd that at least he agreed to the Dunkirk Evacution right across the the channel but wouldn't give them the green light half way around the world with little or no assistance? And you want to lecture me or anyone else?Makes Sense 



   

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MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #2771 on: December 19, 2023, 12:35:04 AM »
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