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Topic: OT - Weird History

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FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4774 on: May 07, 2025, 08:03:37 AM »
they tried to convert us school kids in the 70's, didn't work
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4775 on: May 07, 2025, 08:11:46 AM »
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

West German Chancellor Willy Brandt Resigns (1974)
Brandt fled his native Germany for Norway after the rise of the Nazis in the 1930s. Returning after the war, he became involved in politics and, in 1969, was elected chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany. As chancellor, he greatly improved relations with East Germany, the Soviet Union, and Poland, and in 1971 he received the Nobel Peace Prize. In 1974, he was forced to resign after an embarrassing scandal in
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Gigem

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4776 on: May 07, 2025, 09:50:39 AM »
College was metric. Real life is not.
A&M was both, but I'd say traditional units were more covered % wise except for certain classes like Chemistry where you really only had a few measurements to concern about (mostly T, and sometimes in Kelvins).  I can still remember converting lbs into slugs for mass.  Most people have zero idea that lbs is not really mass, whereas KG is always mass.  

Problems were much easier to solve via metric.  Sometimes I dig out my old notes and books and I can see where I made notes and such about classes and I don't remember anything at all from that class.  Lots of mathematical terms, calculus and symbols and I couldn't tell you what it was for.  

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4777 on: May 07, 2025, 10:08:55 AM »
I'm fine with °F, it makes sense to me with weather.  I much prefer metric for weight(mass) and volume, especially volume.  For distance I still think in miles and feet.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4778 on: May 07, 2025, 10:49:46 AM »
I'm fine with °F, it makes sense to me with weather.  I much prefer metric for weight(mass) and volume, especially volume.  For distance I still think in miles and feet.
I don't know about you, but I "think" in Fahrenheit for temperature, pounds for weight, and miles for distance and I'm too old to probably ever change that.  

I can do C but it is weird to me that a C degree is so much bigger.  Ie, in Fahrenheit freezing is 32 and boiling is 212 so that is a 180 degree range between the freezing and boiling point of water.  In C freezing is 0 and boiling is 100 so the range is only 100 or roughly half (technically 5/9).  As practical application of this, I generally think of "room temperature" as around 68-72 and I'm a cheapskate so I like to keep the heat at 68 in the winter and the a/c at 72 in the summer.  That range in C is only 20-22 so it just feels like you have less control:
  • 20C = 68F
  • 21C = almost 70F
  • 22C = about 71-1/2F
In that same range in Fahrenheit I have five choices instead of three.  

When I take the kids to the doctor they, of course, weigh them in kg (or whatever metric unit) and it is meaningless to me.  I always ask for pounds because that has meaning to me.  

Distance I'm the same way.  I have a couple shorthands that I use to convert but that is the point, I HAVE to convert because "X Kilometers" means nothing to me whereas "X Miles" I can relate to.  So I know that a 5K is 3.1 mi and from that I know that a KM is a little better than 1/2 a mile so I can convert it in my head.  

Gigem

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4779 on: May 07, 2025, 10:56:19 AM »
One of the things that is really annoying to me is how some countries use the . and the , differently.  I think, and I'm not 100% sure on this, that some places say ten thousand as 10.000 ,  and some places say 10,000.  

When I operated a very large chemical plant we would often input flows and setpoints into the DCS (digital control system) like 22,450 lb/hr or 435,000 lb/hr or whatever the number happened to be. Sometimes it would be 4,400,000 lb/hr.  You get the idea.  

Anyways, looking at the display, all you would see is 22500 or 222500 or 2225500 or some such. No commas.  When I asked about it, like why can't we have commas I was told that some countries use commas as decimals and vice versa.  So they wanted to avoid confusion since we have units all over the world.  Never made sense to me, we don't display everything else in other languages.  Also, NOBODY that is not certified to operate the plant would ever make any changes to the system, including our engineers without express consent of the designated operator.  Obviously, certain people were granted very heavy leeway, but somebody from another plant couldn't just come in and start changing stuff.  

What made it even more silly is we did have flows where the output would be only a few lbs/hr, and we would have to input something like 5.25 lb/hr so then we would need to input the decimal.  Made no sense that we cold input something with a decimal, but couldn't display anything with a comma.  

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4780 on: May 07, 2025, 11:07:51 AM »
I don't know about you, but I "think" in Fahrenheit for temperature, pounds for weight, and miles for distance and I'm too old to probably ever change that. 

I can do C but it is weird to me that a C degree is so much bigger.  Ie, in Fahrenheit freezing is 32 and boiling is 212 so that is a 180 degree range between the freezing and boiling point of water.  In C freezing is 0 and boiling is 100 so the range is only 100 or roughly half (technically 5/9).  As practical application of this, I generally think of "room temperature" as around 68-72 and I'm a cheapskate so I like to keep the heat at 68 in the winter and the a/c at 72 in the summer.  That range in C is only 20-22 so it just feels like you have less control:
  • 20C = 68F
  • 21C = almost 70F
  • 22C = about 71-1/2F
In that same range in Fahrenheit I have five choices instead of three. 
I always hear that Fahrenheit makes "more sense" for temperature, especially for outdoor weather / indoor climate control purposes, because "0 is really cold and 100 is really hot, and those numbers just work."

And then I realize that roughly 95% of the people on this rock use C for temperature as it relates to outdoor weather / indoor climate control, and it seems they do just fine with it. 

I'd bet that if we all switched, you'd start "thinking" in C within a few weeks at most. 

I.e. when I went to Ireland, and had to drive on the right side of the car, on the left side of the road, the first day was harrowing. The third day (I didn't drive on day 2) required active concentration, but wasn't THAT hard. The final day (didn't drive again until going to the airport) I was pretty much used to it that I didn't feel at risk of making a mistake. I'm pretty sure that if I'd spent the full week driving every day, I'd have thought nothing of it by day 7. 

Gigem

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4781 on: May 07, 2025, 11:18:01 AM »
A couple of the neighboring plants, for some weird reason, had a few measurements (maybe all, not sure) in metric units.  The one that always killed us was bar for pressure.  We had interconnected pipes, we supplied them with raw materials.  So we could call and ask about something, and they would tell us they had like such and such bar pressure.  We would scratch our heads, and somebody would do a conversion or whatever and we would figure it out.  This was the same company, mind you.  Inside the same facility.  

When we built our new plant about 2013 early on I was in a discussion where the units were being discussed.  We did have a lot of European involvement and there was a very lively discussion about units, with positives and negatives on both sides of the aisle. One of the big one was T, and a lot of the plants I worked in the past used deg C for T with everything else being Standard (lbs etc).  

When asked my opinion, I simply said that the plant is in the USA, we get and give all our measurements in F and lbs, the weather is reported daily in F, and all the sister plants used lbs and deg F.  The only people who would benefit from metric were the Europeans involved in the design, and they would not be here when we completed building and went into operation.  

We ended up with standard units, thank god.  Nobody ever checked my statement that all the sister plants used standard measurements either, because it was a lie.  

Gigem

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4782 on: May 07, 2025, 11:21:42 AM »
I've heard, and my Cincy can confirm since he was a pilot, that pilots still use feet and speed in standard even though you're in a EU country or wherever because the US dominated air travel early on and we standardized it.  They didn't want planes switching back and forth when traveling from one country to the next so it remains feet for altitude and knots for speed (or whatever the air speed designated measurement is).  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4783 on: May 07, 2025, 11:37:39 AM »
I always hear that Fahrenheit makes "more sense" for temperature, especially for outdoor weather / indoor climate control purposes, because "0 is really cold and 100 is really hot, and those numbers just work."

And then I realize that roughly 95% of the people on this rock use C for temperature as it relates to outdoor weather / indoor climate control, and it seems they do just fine with it.

I'd bet that if we all switched, you'd start "thinking" in C within a few weeks at most.

I.e. when I went to Ireland, and had to drive on the right side of the car, on the left side of the road, the first day was harrowing. The third day (I didn't drive on day 2) required active concentration, but wasn't THAT hard. The final day (didn't drive again until going to the airport) I was pretty much used to it that I didn't feel at risk of making a mistake. I'm pretty sure that if I'd spent the full week driving every day, I'd have thought nothing of it by day 7.
I think I'd be fine using C so long as thermostats had 1/2 degree increments.  

Maybe it is just because I'm used to it but I wouldn't want to change from 68 to 70 (which is roughly what 20-21C is.  

As far as driving, when I went to NZ, I had no problem getting used to it except that every time I wanted to turn I hit the wipers instead of the blinker.  

That said, if you look into it more deeply, the harder part is adjusting to stuff that you don't consciously think about.  For example, as an American when you walk up to a road you "instinctively" look to the left because in a country where cars drive on the right, traffic will be approaching from your left as you approach a street.  I can't find the source right now but I've read that the biggest killer for tourists isn't screwing up driving on the other side of the road it is getting creamed crossing a street because you looked the wrong way.  

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4784 on: May 07, 2025, 11:52:57 AM »
That said, if you look into it more deeply, the harder part is adjusting to stuff that you don't consciously think about.  For example, as an American when you walk up to a road you "instinctively" look to the left because in a country where cars drive on the right, traffic will be approaching from your left as you approach a street.  I can't find the source right now but I've read that the biggest killer for tourists isn't screwing up driving on the other side of the road it is getting creamed crossing a street because you looked the wrong way. 
Yep. Definitely felt that when I was in Ireland. That instinct is strong after 46 years of doing it our way lol... 

utee94

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4785 on: May 07, 2025, 12:03:33 PM »
Back in the 70s/80s when they were half-ass trying to teach us the metric system, I learned a rhyme with respect to weather and air temperatures in Celsius.

30 is hot, 20 is nice, 10 is cold, and 0 is ice.

In my engineering and physics classes I did a LOT of work in both systems, and translating between the two, so I have a pretty good feel for how various measurements in the two systems relate to one another.

But honestly, I still use that rhyme when I'm trying to figure out what the weather is going to be like outside my hotel in Paris, and all I have is French weather on the TV...

(well to be fair, these days I just look at my phone, but it held up for a few decades anyway)

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4786 on: May 07, 2025, 12:03:46 PM »
I've heard, and my Cincy can confirm since he was a pilot, that pilots still use feet and speed in standard even though you're in a EU country or wherever because the US dominated air travel early on and we standardized it.  They didn't want planes switching back and forth when traveling from one country to the next so it remains feet for altitude and knots for speed (or whatever the air speed designated measurement is). 
Pilotage uses knots and nautical miles, just as do boat operators.  Altitude is in feet, and then "Flight Level" at higher altitudes, but that is really just feet.  Distance is nautical miles.  English is the global language, which is quite interesting to me.  They use it in China and Russia (commercially).

A nautical mile is related to geographic degrees, which is why it's used, 1.15 statue miles.  I hadn't thought about how aviation is not metric.

We were on a couple KLM flights where the first announcement is in Dutch, the second in English, and then a third in Arabic (in one case).  In English, the pilot would say "We're level at 30,000 feet and 520 mph".  For Europeans they probably somewhat wonder what that means, dunno.


medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4787 on: May 07, 2025, 12:10:44 PM »
Yep. Definitely felt that when I was in Ireland. That instinct is strong after 46 years of doing it our way lol...
A couple more things on driving on the "wrong" side of the road:

My brother worked for a while at an Oil Refinery on St. Croix.  This was a few weeks as a consultant.  Anyway, St. Croix might have the most ridiculous diving set-up in the world.  It is a former British possession so they drive on the left but it is in the Caribbean surrounded by islands and continents that drive LH drive vehicles so they don't bother to import RH drive cars.  Thus all the cars are standard American (and most of the non British world) LH drive cars but you drive on the Left side of the road so as you drive, you are against the curb rather than in the middle.  That makes it harder to remember to drive on the other side of the road.  Ie, when I was in NZ the car I was driving had me on the "wrong" side of the car and that tended to remind me to drive on the "wrong" side of the road.  It would be tougher without that reminder.  

He said that the biggest problem they have in St. Croix is that occasionally a non-British tourist will have a few drinks then get in their standard American LG drive car, drive on the right side of the road, and get in a headon collision, some have been fatal.  

Has anyone ( @Cincydawg ) driven the tunnel between Britain and France?  How do they handle the switch because Britain is RH drive vehicles driving on the left and the continent is LH drive vehicles driving on the right so is there a crossover part way?  

 

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