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Topic: OT- Umpires

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longhorn320

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2023, 01:03:30 PM »
yes the infield fly rule would be called while the ball is in the air

if the fielder catches the ball or accidently drops the ball the ball is live and there is no force

if the fielder drops the ball on purpose determined by the ump then the ball is dead the batter is out and all runners return to the base they had at the time of the pitch
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longhorn320

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2023, 01:08:07 PM »
I know when I used to ump the umps had a hand signal to other umps that the infield fly situation existed to avoid failure to call it properly
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2023, 01:22:40 PM »
A thing I didn't know, if I got this right, is the rule about a single but fast runner on first and a slow batter who hits a pop up to the infield.  If dropped intentionally, it's called out.  If I understand correctly.
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longhorn320

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2023, 01:27:25 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 14, 2023, 01:22:40 PM
A thing I didn't know, if I got this right, is the rule about a single but fast runner on first and a slow batter who hits a pop up to the infield.  If dropped intentionally, it's called out.  If I understand correctly.
I actually saw this exact play in an astro game when Altuve intentially dropped the ball and threw to 2nd for the out and the umps didnt do anything so Im saying if no infield fly situation exists the the ball is live for interntially dropped balls
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GopherRock

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2023, 01:52:28 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 14, 2023, 01:22:40 PM
A thing I didn't know, if I got this right, is the rule about a single but fast runner on first and a slow batter who hits a pop up to the infield.  If dropped intentionally, it's called out.  If I understand correctly.
You read it right. Not only is the batter out, the ball is dead and the runner goes back to first.

https://baseballrulesacademy.com/official-rule/mlb-umpire-manual/infielder-intentionally-drops-fly-ball-or-line-drive/
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longhorn320

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2023, 02:12:29 PM »
there seems to be only balls hitting in the glove and then dropped being called intentionally dropped 

with only a runner on first if the player lets the ball hit the ground without touching it its a live ball

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longhorn320

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2023, 02:17:33 PM »
INFIELDER INTENTIONALLY DROPS FLY BALL OR LINE DRIVE
Rule 5.09(a)(12):
Under Official Baseball Rule 5.09(a)(12), the batter is out, the ball is dead, and runner(s) return to their original base(s) when an infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive with runners on first, first and second, first and third, or bases loaded (with less than two out).
Note that the batter is not declared out in this situation if the infielder permits the ball to drop untouched to the ground except when the Infield Fly rule applies.
When an infielder deliberately drops a fair ball or a line drive to set up a double play situation, runners may safely return to the bases they occupied at the time of the pitch. The same application shall be made if an outfielder has come so close to the infield to set up a double play situation if he intentionally drops the ball.
Runners cannot advance under this rule. Umpires shall immediately call “Time,” when, in their judgment, the ball is intentionally dropped.

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2023, 09:01:51 AM »
Fascinating.
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Kris60

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2023, 10:47:09 AM »
Quote from: Riffraft on July 14, 2023, 11:23:53 AM
Appeals are really no different when then is one umpire vs two umpires.  I am surprised that an Umpire would overturn that type of call on appeal, I would think he would have observed the runner out of the baseline during the play and called her out at that time.

When I was forced to work a game by myself because my partner didn't show up, I would always tell the coaches, I didn't want to hear anything about a close play at out in the field. The only complaint I want to hear is if I wasn't hustling to try to get into position to make the call. Working a higher level game by yourself is not fun.

That’s always what bugged me too.  If he saw her go outside the baseline he had the chance to make that call and he didn’t.  In essence, it seemed like the opposing coach became the second umpire, consulted with him, and overturned the call.

Fun fact, we found out a few days later the opposing coach’s husband was the District Director (or whatever his title was) of the umpires in that area.  They were well known and heavily involved in the baseball/softball scene in that area. The dude who was umping couldn’t have been more than 22 or 23 either.  He was young and probably more prone to be influenced.  We felt like we got “hometowned” in that one.  
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longhorn320

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2023, 10:52:54 AM »
Quote from: Kris60 on July 15, 2023, 10:47:09 AM
That’s always what bugged me too.  If he saw her go outside the baseline he had the chance to make that call and he didn’t.  In essence, it seemed like the opposing coach became the second umpire, consulted with him, and overturned the call.

Fun fact, we found out a few days later the opposing coach’s husband was the District Director (or whatever his title was) of the umpires in that area.  They were well known and heavily involved in the baseball/softball scene in that area. The dude who was umping couldn’t have been more than 22 or 23 either.  He was young and probably more prone to be influenced.  We felt like we got “hometowned” in that one. 
seems like a conflict of interest if the opposing coach had some supervisory duty over the ump
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MarqHusker

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2023, 11:36:29 AM »

https://youtu.be/aq2va-MIWpw

one cannot talk about the IF Fly rule and not mention this game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq2va-MIWpw
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longhorn320

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #53 on: July 15, 2023, 12:19:13 PM »
and as weve said the umps blew the call

if its an infield fly that is allowed to drop to the ground the ball is dead the batter is out and all runners go back to their original base

the run should not have counted
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Kris60

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2023, 12:30:14 PM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on July 15, 2023, 10:52:54 AM
seems like a conflict of interest if the opposing coach had some supervisory duty over the ump
It definitely is but in small town America that’s kinda hard to avoid sometimes I guess.  It was just a regular season middle school game, too. We weren’t really playing for anything.

In the end it gave me something to pick on my wife over so there was a happy ending.
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Kris60

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Re: OT- Umpires
« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2023, 02:42:04 PM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on July 15, 2023, 12:19:13 PM
and as weve said the umps blew the call

if its an infield fly that is allowed to drop to the ground the ball is dead the batter is out and all runners go back to their original base

the run should not have counted
I disagree.  The play is only dead if the ump determines the ball was intentionally dropped.  In the case of that Giants play I don’t think it was and apparently the ump didn’t either.  The runners are allowed to advance at their own risk and any force plays are off.  I think that was called correctly.
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