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Topic: OT - TV shows and Movies

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SFBadger96

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Re: OT - TV shows and Movies
« Reply #1246 on: March 30, 2026, 07:59:23 PM »
To that I say: read the book! :-) Or we can discuss once more people have had a chance to watch the movie.

CatsbyAZ

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Re: OT - TV shows and Movies
« Reply #1247 on: Today at 11:29:30 AM »
Then we have the Fermi Paradox which is ... interesting.

My favorite explanation for the Fermi Paradox is as follows - quoting from Wikipedia:

"It may be that intelligent alien life develops an "increasing disinterest" in their outside world. Possibly any sufficiently advanced society will develop highly engaging media and entertainment well before the capacity for advanced space travel, with the rate of appeal of these social contrivances being destined, because of their inherent reduced complexity, to overtake any desire for complex, expensive endeavors such as space exploration and communication. Once any sufficiently advanced civilization becomes able to master its environment, and most of its physical needs are met through technology, various "social and entertainment technologies", including virtual reality, are postulated to become the primary drivers and motivations of that civilization."


This explanation must be inspired by our own species willingness to retreat into their digital escapes. And at this point in time, I think mankind is nearing an advent of ultimate distraction. Where our virtual worlds will become so sensually immersive that reality will be dismissed by the masses as a "backwater."

The advent of television was an escape, but not so much so that TV could not be relegated to background noise in most settings, while you cooked, folded laundry, or played cards. Video games are an even more engaging escape. And today the conditioning is already in place for a virtual world that the masses won't want to unplug from, to the detriment of taken-for-granted basics of reality - diet, chores, face-to-face friends, etc.



MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT - TV shows and Movies
« Reply #1248 on: Today at 12:48:42 PM »
That could be, but the Fermi Paradox is built on a number of assumptions that are severely out of date.  Fermi originally outlined his puzzle around 1950 or so.  Physics, and our understanding of the fine-tuning of the universe, has made monumental leaps since then, each which exponentially alter the paradigm he was operating in.  Even Stephen Hawking's famous book, A Brief History of Time, assumed that all we needed for an Earth-like planet was a solar system similar to ours (which is no common feat to start out with).  That was only 1988.  Since then the requirements for an Earth-like planet we now know must be present have exploded, both in number requirements and in the probabilities of each requirement that sink the odds ever lower. 

Put simply, a planet capable of supporting advanced life like Earth shouldn't exist.  Anywhere.  The factors that need to be present completely overwhelm the counter-assumptions based on the vastness of space and the potential number of life-sustaining planets it could hold.  The Starship Enterprise roamed around the galaxy, visiting and stumbling upon "M-Class" planets (meaning, like Earth) as if the Milky Way was sneezing those things out with regularity.  In the real world, they're going to be incomprehensibly less probable, if they exist at all.  I say "incomprehensibly" because the probabilities involve numbers so large that they don't mean anything to the human mind.  If I said one thing had a 1 in 10120 chance in occurring.....that wouldn't mean anything to any of us.  If we then said there's 50 of those things with similar odds (there's way more than 50), and they all have to hit the incomprehensible odds, it means even less. 

What amuses me is how science popularizers will regularly gloss over this stuff in pop-level settings.  Interviews, articles, books aimed at laymen, etc.  Catch them in scientific journals, speaking at conferences with their peers, or academic books, etc., and when pressed, their tune changes to a more honest look at the long odds. 

Fermi asks, "Where is everybody?"  My personal Bayesian analysis says "They probably ain't there."  I don't know that for certain.  Neither do I have any first-hand research, obviously.  Just the work and opinions of people who study this stuff. 

That said, if "they" are out there--or will be out there at some point in the future--there is another explanation that seems to be overlooked in the usual conversations.  From what I've seen, the assumption is always that there must be older, more advanced civilizations than ours, so we wonder why they haven't come to see us.  They never seem to consider the possibility that we are the oldest, first civilization (or one of them), and so it's going to be the rest of the universe waiting on us to go visit them, assuming a comparable rate of progress in technology across worlds.  I find that as plausible as any of the other solutions to the paradox commonly proposed.  Perhaps even somewhat likely, since despite the fact that there are stars much older than our own, given the necessity of a bunch of finely-tuned factors I mentioned above, then it could be that if there are other civilizations (or there are going to be others), there won't be nearly so many of them as the vastness of space suggests, and perhaps our planet was the first, despite the fact our sun is younger than many others.  Even if one doesn't consider that the likeliest explanation, it should be on the table with the others. 

Catsby's favorite explanation, while I don't consider it the most likely, I worry has a ring of truth to it. 

CatsbyAZ

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Re: OT - TV shows and Movies
« Reply #1249 on: Today at 01:43:00 PM »
They never seem to consider the possibility that we are the oldest, first civilization (or one of them), and so it's going to be the rest of the universe waiting on us to go visit them, assuming a comparable rate of progress in technology across worlds.  I find that as plausible as any of the other solutions to the paradox commonly proposed. 

One of the proposed explanations to the Fermi Paradox is the Firstborn hypothesis - to again quote Wikipedia: "The firstborn hypothesis is a proposed solution to the Fermi paradox which states that no extraterrestrial intelligent life has been discovered because humanity [our earthly mankind] is the first form of intelligent life in the universe."

And finding this as the likeliest of the twenty or thirty explanations to the Fermi Paradox, I think you and I are on the same page. When diving into various angles of probability for advanced life elsewhere, or any kind of life at all, the likelihood is staggeringly, unfathomably low. Calculations for these probabilities, such as the Drake Equation and the Rare Earth Hypothesis multiply lengthy strings of variables whose values all compound at far less than zero.

For a less mathematically look, take the Great Filter model (already mentioned by @betarhoalphadelta elsewhere). Nine factors are listed as barriers to the development of an intelligent humanity such as ours, from the necessary fundamental planetary conditions (Step 1) to where we our now: an organized advancement toward the potential for interstellar colonization (Step 8):

"With no evidence of intelligent life in places other than Earth, it appears that the process of starting with a star and ending with advanced explosive lasting life must be unlikely. This implies that at least one step in this process must be improbable."

Much of the discussion about the Great Filter model has rallied around which of the Nine barriers is the improbable step, such as Abiogenesis, and the case can be made for each Barrier being the "Great Filter", however, I think this misses the point that ALL PROPOSED FACTORS are already impossibly unlikely advancements:



utee94

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Re: OT - TV shows and Movies
« Reply #1250 on: Today at 01:45:16 PM »
One of the proposed explanations to the Fermi Paradox is the Firstborn hypothesis - to again quote Wikipedia: "The firstborn hypothesis is a proposed solution to the Fermi paradox which states that no extraterrestrial intelligent life has been discovered because humanity [our earthly mankind] is the first form of intelligent life in the universe."

I don't buy this at all, since it's obvious that our ancient ancestors were obviously aliens who desposited some of their population on earth and then left them, for reasons we don't yet know.


ELA

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Re: OT - TV shows and Movies
« Reply #1251 on: Today at 01:53:23 PM »
This thread went into a different nerd direction.

We started DTF St. Louis.  I love all 3 main actors.  And I'm on board with a non-linear narrative, but I can't recall it ever being done this poorly.  I think part of the problem is that it's such a narrow window of time, that it's unclear.  Thus far, it hasn't been that important, so it's ok.

But also, not that many characters, so for a "who done it", there are very limited options.  No spoilers, but my wife said, "it better not be X, that's too obvious," and I pointed out there are literally only 3 other options, unless it's a total wildcard, and it's the friends 6 year old daughter, across town, at 4 in the morning.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT - TV shows and Movies
« Reply #1252 on: Today at 03:16:43 PM »
This thread went into a different nerd direction.

I have many nerd facets.  

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT - TV shows and Movies
« Reply #1253 on: Today at 03:18:24 PM »
One of the proposed explanations to the Fermi Paradox is the Firstborn hypothesis - to again quote Wikipedia: "The firstborn hypothesis is a proposed solution to the Fermi paradox which states that no extraterrestrial intelligent life has been discovered because humanity [our earthly mankind] is the first form of intelligent life in the universe."

Well, then, crap.

I thought I came up with that one.  

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT - TV shows and Movies
« Reply #1254 on: Today at 03:19:29 PM »
We started DTF St. Louis.  I love all 3 main actors.  And I'm on board with a non-linear narrative, but I can't recall it ever being done this poorly.  I think part of the problem is that it's such a narrow window of time, that it's unclear.  Thus far, it hasn't been that important, so it's ok.

But also, not that many characters, so for a "who done it", there are very limited options.  No spoilers, but my wife said, "it better not be X, that's too obvious," and I pointed out there are literally only 3 other options, unless it's a total wildcard, and it's the friends 6 year old daughter, across town, at 4 in the morning.


I'll check it out sometime.  Haven't heard of it til you mentioned it here.  I also like the main actors.  

bayareabadger

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Re: OT - TV shows and Movies
« Reply #1255 on: Today at 03:26:37 PM »
This thread went into a different nerd direction.

We started DTF St. Louis.  I love all 3 main actors.  And I'm on board with a non-linear narrative, but I can't recall it ever being done this poorly.  I think part of the problem is that it's such a narrow window of time, that it's unclear.  Thus far, it hasn't been that important, so it's ok.

But also, not that many characters, so for a "who done it", there are very limited options.  No spoilers, but my wife said, "it better not be X, that's too obvious," and I pointed out there are literally only 3 other options, unless it's a total wildcard, and it's the friends 6 year old daughter, across town, at 4 in the morning.
I listened to a podcast that was basically like, that’s not very good. And it doesn’t seem like anyone is really refuting it.

bayareabadger

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Re: OT - TV shows and Movies
« Reply #1256 on: Today at 03:30:29 PM »
Yeah we saw Project Hail Mary last night and I thought it was great.  I was fine with the pace, it was a long movie with a great deal of fluidity and I felt like it needed to be.

I'm a fan of Marvel and Star Wars so I'm not on the same boat as all of the folks who rage over Hollywood almost exclusively producing franchise films and sequels and remakes and reboots.  I like those too.

But I'm always really happy when the studios create movies from original stories, and I'd always like to see more of those.


To a degree, I feel like the raging is 80 percent people who want to complain, 20 percent people being over serious. Plenty of good stuff is previous IP.

And shoot, they usually produce enough good movies every year. Some of them might be a bit more high culture, but they’re usually pretty good.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT - TV shows and Movies
« Reply #1257 on: Today at 04:30:12 PM »
I don't have a preference whether something is new/original or whether it's built on--or a remake of--an established IP.  I just want a good story/movie/show.

Now, the quality of many established IPs has dropped significantly for me, but I don't not watch things because they're beating an established universe to death....no problems with that.  Heck, I'd love to keep seeing great stories from worlds I know and love.  No, when I skip content, it's because too many previous things from that franchise disappointed me.

utee94

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Re: OT - TV shows and Movies
« Reply #1258 on: Today at 04:35:18 PM »
I don't have a preference whether something is new/original or whether it's built on--or a remake of--an established IP.  I just want a good story/movie/show.

Now, the quality of many established IPs has dropped significantly for me, but I don't not watch things because they're beating an established universe to death....no problems with that.  Heck, I'd love to keep seeing great stories from worlds I know and love.  No, when I skip content, it's because too many previous things from that franchise disappointed me.

You've discussed how you really just never could force yourself to like House of the Dragon, but really enjoyed Knight Of The Seven Kingdoms, and I think that's an excellent example of what you're saying here.  I probably like House of the Dragon better than you do, but I certainly don't love it, and if another season never aired, I'd be fine.  Contrast that with KOT7K which I genuinely enthusiastically loved, and others seem to enjoy it quite a bit as well.

You can make great new shows in a well-established existing world, and you can make crap.  

utee94

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Re: OT - TV shows and Movies
« Reply #1259 on: Today at 04:37:11 PM »
Similar but different, I can't imagine I'll ever be inclined to watch the new version of Harry Potter.  I just don't want to watch new actors playing those characters.


 

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