OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread

[bayareabadger]

All places are cool in their own way, and despite all our regionalisms, thankfully, we’re all in it together.

[MikeDeTiger]

Red and yellow, kill a fellow.  Red and black, friend of Jack.

It appeared to be neither.

If the red and yellow are next to each other it's a coral snake.  Those things are bad news and they're all over Central Texas and increase in frequency as you move east toward... well... you.

That works until it doesn't.  An old biology prof at McNeese once told me while it's not foolproof, it's better to learn patterns than colors.  i.e., the number, shape, and repetition of colors, rather than the colors themselves.  And the scale characteristics, if you really know what you're talking about, and can get close enough.  That's due to mutations.  Not all coral snakes will fit the color pattern, and occasionally some posers will mutate to fit it.  That said, I don't know patterns very well either.  My taxonomy of snakes goes like this:  Dead ones, and living ones.    

If the red and black are next to one another it's a King snake.  Lots of those around here too.  They're generally harmless and even helpful becase they'll consume rodents, plus they'll kill and eat more dangerous venomous snakes like rattlers!  If you can help it, don't kill King snakes.

There is a particular breed of Louisiana king snake that is so easy to identify even I can do it reliably, and I have tried to leave those alone.  The one yesterday was red on black, but the pattern (size of the different colored bands) didn't fit anything I've looked up.  Which does lend support to it being one of the local king snakes that mimic corals and have evolved all manner of patterns.  That said, see above.  There's nothing foolproof by the colors, and my dog was trying to chase this thing at first.  She's on a massive dose of steroids at the moment while she's getting over an auto-immune disease that dropped her platelet count to zero, and I can't even imagine what would happen to her if she were bit by a coral snake.  It could kill her in the best of circumstances.  She'd have no chance on immuno-suppressants.  I'm killing everything.  Except for the ones that get away, dammit.   

[utee94]

If there's red, yellow, and black, then they have to be one way or the other. It's just a matter of mathematical certainty.

If there's not all three of those colors, then it's not coral snake.  If there are extra colors, it's also not a coral snake.

I'll allow that theoretically a coral snake could evolve not to have red and yellow together.  And a king snake could evolve to have them together.

In the field, in practice, that has not been observed.  It's safe to assume red and yella, red and black.

If you choose to avoid all snakes that's fine too, I'm just attempting to tell you how you can make your own determination in your own yard.

[utee94]

Bad:



Not bad:

[847badgerfan]

My in-laws are saying all the Canucks are selling out/moving home in Lake Havasu because politics.  Not having the same issue in FLA?

Not that I'm seeing.

There were many who sold during Covid, which was fine - they made a lot of money.

Their problem was that if they chose to come here, they would not be allowed back into Canada. That got lifted in October 2022, but the damage for them was done.

I know a few Canadians, from Ontario and Minnesota, and they're mostly OK for being hosers.

[MikeDeTiger]

If there's red, yellow, and black, then they have to be one way or the other. It's just a matter of mathematical certainty.

If there's not all three of those colors, then it's not coral snake.  If there are extra colors, it's also not a coral snake.

I'll allow that theoretically a coral snake could evolve not to have red and yellow together.  And a king snake could evolve to have them together.

In the field, in practice, that has not been observed.  It's safe to assume red and yella, red and black.

If you choose to avoid all snakes that's fine too, I'm just attempting to tell you how you can make your own determination in your own yard.

According to the snake websites and that prof I talked to decades ago, herpetologists tend to go by things like head shape, eye shape, and other characteristics in addition to colors, for the reasons mentioned.  Whether or not they've been observed in the field, I don't know.  But it would seem that they at least recognize the possibility, or they would more heartily endorse the old adage instead of saying "probably, but not definitely."  

Anyway, it was red, yellow, and black, but none of the patterns your pictures showed.  It was both "red against yellow" and "red against black."  Because it was alternating broad bands of black and yellow separated by narrow bands of red.  I'm hopeful it was a king, 'cuz he might still be out there somewhere.  

[jgvol]

Yeah, those hosers drive down and rent a place for a month. We get them here too. They are all gone now.

Don't come here between Feb 15 and April 15.

I was there Feb 19 - Feb 23rd.  LOL

[utee94]

According to the snake websites and that prof I talked to decades ago, herpetologists tend to go by things like head shape, eye shape, and other characteristics in addition to colors, for the reasons mentioned.  Whether or not they've been observed in the field, I don't know.  But it would seem that they at least recognize the possibility, or they would more heartily endorse the old adage instead of saying "probably, but not definitely." 

Anyway, it was red, yellow, and black, but none of the patterns your pictures showed.  It was both "red against yellow" and "red against black."  Because it was alternating broad bands of black and yellow separated by narrow bands of red.  I'm hopeful it was a king, 'cuz he might still be out there somewhere. 

If it doesn't look like my top picture, it's not a coral snake.  And ultimately it doesn't matter what kind of snake it is, if the sole reason for determination is "dangerous or safe", ""venomous or not venomous", "coral snake or not coral snake."

Again, theoretically it's possible that there are venomous coral snakes that don't match the above.  It's theoretically possible that such a mutation occurred.  But since there are no large scale observations of this mutation, no major classifications of this mutation, no categorization of such a coral snake with this mutation,  it would be extremely rare in nature, and therefore extremely unlikely that your one encounter with a coral snake, occurs with one that has mutated away from the appearance of all the known coral snakes in existence.

If you hate all snakes, fine, I get it.  But worrying that you might encounter a coral snake that doesn't match the above picture, is something you really don't need to do.

Edited To Add-- You live in an area where coral snakes are common.  So while it's good to be cautious about all stripey-looking snakes, it's also probably a good idea to study that top picture, so you know exactly what a real coral snake looks like.  I've camped a LOT in my lifetime, and I've pretty frequently encountered coral snakes, rattlesnakes, and cottonmouth water moccasins.  I know what they all look like, I've studied and memorized them, to help keep me and my family as safe as possible.

[Brutus Buckeye]

[utee94]

The guys I know from New York and New Jersey use the hard R way more than anyone I've ever known from the South.  They also use lots of other racial and ethnic slurs I've never even heard of.

[betarhoalphadelta]

What are Mormans?

[Brutus Buckeye]

What are Mormans?

Yeah, that was funny. 

[847badgerfan]

I was there Feb 19 - Feb 23rd.  LOL

On the front end of it, when it was still cold!

[MikeDeTiger]

I just kill all of them^*, that method has kept me and my family safe as well   One snake in the front flower bed a few years ago turned out to be a king, but he rattled at me, which hastened his demise.  It was only after the fact I learned that some king snakes around here imitate rattles as a defense mechanism, which is what he appeared to be.  It didn't work in his favor.  Don't know if I've ever run up on any cottonmouths, but I've sent several to the afterlife in ponds through the years that turned out to be moccasins.  When I worked grounds maintenance at the lumber mill in college we ran into all kinds of snakes all the time.  I finished weed-eating one time in some particularly thick brush and one was hanging off my snake chaps....might have had his fangs stuck, but I didn't get a good look in his mouth....might've not had fangs at all and was just biting the chaps.  A coworker was nice enough to get that one off of me.  They absolutely loved the giant wood piles, the sprinklers we kept on them, and the vast grounds of ever-growing grass.  I never loved them in return.  I'm pretty scared of snakes, to the point that I'd rather do battle with one and know that he'll never be waiting for me again than to let them be and hope they leave. 

Fortunately, I have never encountered snakes while camping, that I can think of.  


* except for that one kind of Louisiana King.  He doesn't do dumb things like rattle, or try to look like corals.  He just wears his distinctive shiny, sparkly black proudly and eats other snakes.