OT - Grumpy Old Man Thread

[betarhoalphadelta]

The movie theater might be a good example of something that HAS gotten better over time... Better picture, better sound, comfy reclining chairs and a little button to summon the wait staff to bring me another beer. 

We don't go often, but when there's something we want to see, it's a better experience than it was. 

[utee94]

The movie theater might be a good example of something that HAS gotten better over time... Better picture, better sound, comfy reclining chairs and a little button to summon the wait staff to bring me another beer.

We don't go often, but when there's something we want to see, it's a better experience than it was.

Yeah this was going to be one of my counterpoints to Catsby's initial post.  There are several things that are objectively better than they were in the "good old days" and the movie experience is one of them.

CD brings it up often but it bears repeating-- cars are vastly improved compared to 30-40 years ago.  They're more reliable, safer, more comfortable, faster for the same sized engine displacements, more fuel efficient, and all sorts of other improvements.  Sure they're more expensive, but everything is.

As far as music-- every generation complains about the "new music" being worse than what they grew up with.  But first of all, that's a subjective matter of taste.  Most people I know who are my age, just listen to the same stuff they were listening to 30 years ago.  And that's fine, listen to what you like.  I'm very much on record as being a great lover of 80s music and that's still a large portion of what I listen to.

But I also intentionally spend scores of hours every year scouring the airwaves and the internet for new music.  It's a hobby and a passion and I can tell you there is a LOT of great new music released all the time.  And one of the greatest things about now, compared to decades ago, is the access and availability of it.  No longer am I restricted to what mainstream radio or MTV clues me into.  No longer am I bound by what the record labels think will make the most money, regardless of quality.  There are now so many avenues to obtain good new music, be it recorded or live, that it's almost an embarrassment of riches.  Sure the market is more fractured and you have to search a little harder for it, but there's plenty of it out there.

I have more thoughts on all of this, I'll add more later.

[CatsbyAZ]

I don't think that it is A, in general.

I ascribe to the Sturgeon's Law
Sturgeon's Law explanation... "Ninety percent of everything is crud." And then you compare that with B, nostalgia, and we tend to have a selective memory about the past.

This is a great point that I’m glad you brought up. Taking sitcoms from my childhood, I remember watching Full House, Saved By the Bell, Family Matters, and Home Improvement. I remember liking those shows as a kid. But looking back, I admittedly watched these not because they were good but merely because they happened to be on TV after school.

In the past five years I’ve come across reruns for these shows on various digital broadcast channels, and except for Home Improvement, the other three are woefully unwatchable. If those exact shows aired today as new shows I would not get through a single episode. And the brief nostalgia you see for these shows, IMO, has more to do with scraping for "comfort watches" from the childhood era of when these shows originally aired. If they aired today as new shows, they would be soon forgotten as the 90% crude.

As far as music-- every generation complains about the "new music" being worse than what they grew up with.  But first of all, that's a subjective matter of taste.  Most people I know who are my age, just listen to the same stuff they were listening to 30 years ago.  And that's fine, listen to what you like.  I'm very much on record as being a great lover of 80s music and that's still a large portion of what I listen to.

But I also intentionally spend scores of hours every year scouring the airwaves and the internet for new music.  It's a hobby and a passion and I can tell you there is a LOT of great new music released all the time.

Music was the one art I was convinced had provably gotten worse. I’ve come across any number of commentaries pointing out how the sound of music has simplified and become less sophisticated since the 1970s. Two of the many reasons commonly cited for this are the digitization of music, putting more of the creative process through computer programs, and the rising importance of the artist’s image.

[MikeDeTiger]

It's hard to gauge "music" in general because there's just no way to take in all the music that's put out these days.  

Everything that makes it to what passes for modern-day "mainstream" in my step-son's generation and Spotify's Top (Whatever, insert # here) which tends to pass my ears at some point......I can confidently say is "dumber" than most music used to be.  The chords are repetitive and simple.  Sometimes there's no real sectional definition, or sometimes the main hook is all there is.  Something is definitely lost in instrumentation talent/ability/use, but OTOH, new synth technologies are being employed which involves way more engineering nerd-work on the front end than "playing ability" as we'd think of it, but that is still a musical skill (being a guy who plays multiple instruments and also having done some synth set-up and playing, that's my opinion, anyway), so in that way, newer music showcases some different musical ability, but musical ability nevertheless.  

Every other criticism I have of modern music could arguably be thrust into the "that's just, like, your opinion, man" category (I would dispute that, but I don't have the interest to do so here), but it is the case that the structure of songs has decreased in intricacy and imagination.  "Musical skill/talent" is kind of nebulous and possibly up for debate.  "Songwriting" skill seems to be objectively decreasing, on the whole, in the stuff I come across.  

[MikeDeTiger]

Forgot to add....

There's also sheer vocal ability, which I think is as solid/great now on the whole as it ever was, if not better.  There are some tremendous singers out there these days.

That being said, for me, I think we've probably already witnessed what is likely to be the pinnacle of female singers, the departed Whitney Houston.  It's possible someone could come along in my lifetime with a voice that I thought exceeded Whitney's, but it seems very unlikely to me.  And I might well fail to recognize how great a voice is if for no other reason than Whitney sang a genre of music I like better than what's being offered today, or possibly in the future.  

[utee94]

It's hard to gauge "music" in general because there's just no way to take in all the music that's put out these days. 

Everything that makes it to what passes for modern-day "mainstream" in my step-son's generation and Spotify's Top (Whatever, insert # here) which tends to pass my ears at some point......I can confidently say is "dumber" than most music used to be.  The chords are repetitive and simple.  Sometimes there's no real sectional definition, or sometimes the main hook is all there is.  Something is definitely lost in instrumentation talent/ability/use, but OTOH, new synth technologies are being employed which involves way more engineering nerd-work on the front end than "playing ability" as we'd think of it, but that is still a musical skill (being a guy who plays multiple instruments and also having done some synth set-up and playing, that's my opinion, anyway), so in that way, newer music showcases some different musical ability, but musical ability nevertheless. 

Every other criticism I have of modern music could arguably be thrust into the "that's just, like, your opinion, man" category (I would dispute that, but I don't have the interest to do so here), but it is the case that the structure of songs has decreased in intricacy and imagination. "Musical skill/talent" is kind of nebulous and possibly up for debate.  "Songwriting" skill seems to be objectively decreasing, on the whole, in the stuff I come across. 

You've admitted that the modern music you're talking about is the Spotify top whatever, in other words pop music, and I'd argue that it's no less  sophisticated than the pop music from 40 years ago.  Tiffany, Debbie Gibson, or Samantha Fox.  These artists weren't paragons of talent and sophistication then, or now.

On the other hand, there's plenty of sophisictated music coming from talented musicisons, that you're just not listening to.

[Cincydawg]

What is one contemporary song I should listen to to see if I like it?

I gave up listening decades ago to anything "current".  

[MikeDeTiger]

You've admitted that the modern music you're talking about is the Spotify top whatever, in other words pop music, and I'd argue that it's no less  sophisticated than the pop music from 40 years ago.  Tiffany, Debbie Gibson, or Samantha Fox.  These artists weren't paragons of talent and sophistication then, or now.

On the other hand, there's plenty of sophisictated music coming from talented musicisons, that you're just not listening to.

That's quite possible.

But re: pop music from 40 years ago, objectively, those songs frequently made use of more than the hum-drum 1, 5, 6, 4 that is so prevalent now.  In fact, that's why synths work so well in songs today (in the way they're being used as droning pads for multiple layered tracks)....because a simple open 1-5 drone works over all four of those chords.  You can't get away with that in a lot of 80's pop, and unsurprisingly, there wasn't a lot of droning synths in that stuff.  Both for stylistic choices.....it probably just wasn't fashionable back then....but also, it wouldn't work in many cases.  A droning pad would sound wrong in much of the 80's pop once the song deviated from those 4 chords.

Elton John, George Michael, Michael Jackson......that's all pop music.  Their songs are chord-progression rocket science compared to what I hear now.....which again, this can't be stressed enough, may well be quite limited.  I'm open to suggestions for a higher quality modern playlist to try, because it sure would be nice to hear some new stuff that made me want to pick up an instrument and work it out.  Maybe you can give me some songs/artists to try out.  

[FearlessF]

What is one contemporary song I should listen to to see if I like it?

I gave up listening decades ago to anything "current". 

don't ask this grumpy old man, I gave up decades ago

[utee94]

That's quite possible.

But re: pop music from 40 years ago, objectively, those songs frequently made use of more than the hum-drum 1, 5, 6, 4 that is so prevalent now.  In fact, that's why synths work so well in songs today (in the way they're being used as droning pads for multiple layered tracks)....because a simple open 1-5 drone works over all four of those chords.  You can't get away with that in a lot of 80's pop, and unsurprisingly, there wasn't a lot of droning synths in that stuff.  Both for stylistic choices.....it probably just wasn't fashionable back then....but also, it wouldn't work in many cases.  A droning pad would sound wrong in much of the 80's pop once the song deviated from those 4 chords.

Elton John, George Michael, Michael Jackson......that's all pop music.  Their songs are chord-progression rocket science compared to what I hear now.....which again, this can't be stressed enough, may well be quite limited.  I'm open to suggestions for a higher quality modern playlist to try, because it sure would be nice to hear some new stuff that made me want to pick up an instrument and work it out.  Maybe you can give me some songs/artists to try out. 

I've posted a lengthy thread with lots of modern music, playlists that I compile every year for the TX-OU game.  That's probably a decent place to start.

In general though, and no offense intended, it sounds like your mind's pretty much made up.  If, in all of the music of the last decade you've listened to for whatever reason, you haven't found ANYthing you like or are impressed with, then there's little chance anything I suggest is gonna penetrate that wall.

[jgvol]

The movie theater might be a good example of something that HAS gotten better over time... Better picture, better sound, comfy reclining chairs and a little button to summon the wait staff to bring me another beer.

We don't go often, but when there's something we want to see, it's a better experience than it was.

Probably true, expect for the movie itself --- which mostly are garbage now.

Better experience, but nothing worth seeing.

[jgvol]

Watched a thought provoking vid on this very subject a few weeks back.  Here's a simple synopsis of why we think things suck more now than they used to.  I feel like this is 100% true.


Shared culture is disappearing due to hyper-personalized digital media, globalization, and changing social structures, leading to fragmented experiences where common touchstones like shared TV shows or music fade, replaced by niche online communities and individual feeds, causing a loss of collective identity, tradition, and social cohesion, with language and physical cultural practices also at risk. 

[Honestbuckeye]

You can pros and cons to anything.  

The great thing about music is you can listen to anything you like.  So many great choices.  

Modern tech- social media?   Here is what I love.  Even though one daughter lives in Denver, the other in Michigan, I can an do text and FaceTime with them all the time. 

[utee94]

Probably true, expect for the movie itself --- which mostly are garbage now.

Better experience, but nothing worth seeing.

I can't really agree with that.

The 20+ movies over the first ten years of the Avengers films are some of the best serial cinema in movie history.  I get it that some don't like superheo movies, but there's no doubt that the filmmaking, direction, acting, and storylines, were excellent across almost all of them.

Then there are directors like Wes Anderson that make movies that are rich in storytelling and cinematography, or Yorgos Lanthimos that tell deep and complex stories.

I do wonder if we're past the golden age of comedic cinema.  For me that was the mid 70s through the 80s, and maybe a little into the 90s.  Comedies these days tend toward the darker or more cynical, and just don't seem to be as much fun as they used to be.  But it's also possible that it's just a "me" thing wishing for the good old days.