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Topic: OT - Books

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CatsbyAZ

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #224 on: June 07, 2025, 12:14:16 PM »
Quoting from the unpopular opinions thread:

Assigning classic works of literature at the high school level is a waste of time.  Such a low % of the students are going to get anything out of them, much less enjoy them.

Through my time in high school, I was one of a few students to complete the assigned readings, skimping only on Catch 22 (with no regrets). The books we were assigned reflected America's most ambitious literature - Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Faulkner, Salinger, etc. But even back then, diving into America's artsier, more academic readings didn't translate well to the adolescent mind, not as well as it had during previous decades due to the primary medium of cultural entertainment shifting from books to film sometime during the 70s and 80s. By the 90s and into the 2000s, our minds were trained to prefer the screen over the page. Fast forward to now, to our time of YouTube, Netflix, and TikTok, and I can't imagine today's teenagers possessing the focus and patience to sink their minds into something like Jane Eyre, in a classroom setting no less. Too much of an unhurried slow burn, as the kids might say.

Ha!  I love all the classics listed above.  I loved Great Gatsby so much I went out and bought everything Fitzgerald ever wrote.  To this day he remains my favorite author.

Touching on my high school years again, up until my 11th grade American Literature class, I'd only read Mass Market Fiction: page-turning mysteries, legal thrillers, horror, and especially Michael Crichton's and Tom Clancy's techno-thrillers. It wasn't until I was assigned to read The Great Gatsby that my reading faith shifted to mostly Literary tastes. Reading Gatsby, I was struck, chapter by chapter, by how language could rise to higher aims of Art through creative use of context, subtext, themes, symbols, and characterization. Like you, I've since read (most of) Fitzgerald.

Piggybacking on brad and SF's earlier comments about War and Peace....

Most "classic" works I've ever read (or was required to read) sucked...Most of that stuff tho, just makes me think it's for pompous people who want to get together at aristocratic parties, sip tea with their pinky fingers out, jerk each other off about the fancy schools they attended and pretend to be cultured and deep and thoughtful and better than the plebes.  Give me Harry Potter any day over that stuff.

However, for many readers, the story - or plot - is what most matters. Plot is what Mass Market fiction leverages. These days I'll only read a Mass Market novel when friends recommend specific titles. Reading Mass Market fiction, it's too obvious how the breezier writing, snappy scenes, and external characterizations of a legal thriller are written to translate to film. I say "external characterizations" because characters like Mickey Haller from Lincoln Lawyer are geared toward outward attributes such as humor, brashness, and charm. Whereas literary fiction characters serve as more inward studies of self-destruction, internal conflict, depression, and regret – qualities stewing beneath the outward expression generally celebrated for amusement in Mass Market fiction.

None of this is to say that Mass Market readers are less intelligent than readers of Literary Fiction. It is a matter of different minds being attracted to different methods of language. Sticklers for Literary Fiction are serving a more abstract mode of thinking that appreciates the capabilities of language itself. For instance, a novel like Mrs. Dalloway by Virginia Woolf - trapping the reading inside its protagonist's various, alternating viewpoints over the course of an uneventful day - has no plot, and would likely not go over well with the book club next door. But to a niche of Literary purists, the inventive, non-linear and parallel narrative structure of Mrs. Dalloway impressively illuminates the protagonist's emotional inner world. And it's a more impressive study when understanding how experimental this psychological writing was for its time.

Mass Market fiction emphasizes plot and seeks to entertain to the degree it can keep up with television and/or be sold as movie rights.

Literary fiction seeks to be Art, and elevates characters over plot.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #225 on: June 07, 2025, 01:59:34 PM »
A genre I really like is historical fiction.  Done well it combines an engaging plot with actual history, Bernard Cornwell is a master in my view.  His books got me interested in real history of things he writes about.  And he includes a small chapter in the back explaining where he deviated from known history for plot.

There are of course "TV" adaptations of some of his works, some of which are quite good, but the books are better.  The Sharpe adaptations are pretty low budget.  The books are superb.  He started a series on the US Civil War which was quite good but never finished it.  I tried my hand in the same genre, self published.  I got some great feedback from CWSooner and a few others and made a second edition where I fixed some stuff, and typos, oh my, the typos.

I think in trying to write my own books has given me a greater appreciation for how the "masters" do it.  

John Sanford is my current fiction favorite.

Riffraft

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #226 on: June 07, 2025, 02:32:25 PM »
This days I alternate between "Histories and Biographies" and "fantasy and Sci-fi"  I will throw in a classic that I haven't read before.

I grew up reading anything and everything.  My parents brought the "Great books of the Western World" set.  By the time I finished high school I had read through the set.  In high school, I hated reading the popular books in the English classes, but loved most of the classics assigned. 

If you ever want to get old out of copyright books, Project Gutenberg (gutenberg.org) is a great source for free electronic books.  

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #227 on: June 09, 2025, 10:08:27 AM »
Any of you use a service for audio-books?  My wife is considering signing up for an Audible account.  I think there is another alternative or two, just wondering if any of you have suggestions/preferences about such services.    

slugsrbad

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #228 on: June 09, 2025, 10:53:06 AM »
I do not listen to audiobooks, but if you have a Spotify premium account it includes 15 hours a month. 

My friend uses audible and I have not really heard him complain. 

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #229 on: June 09, 2025, 11:01:50 AM »
I thought CD or someone here mentioned Libby a while back.  Wondered how he liked it.  I think it has something to do with linking a library card.  Not sure.  

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #230 on: June 09, 2025, 11:08:55 AM »
Libby in an app and you do link it to your library card(s).  Then you "check out" books and I read'em on an iPad.  I have it on my phone as well.  For long plane flights I stock up on something to read.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #231 on: June 09, 2025, 11:13:25 AM »
Can you do audio books with Libby?  Wife is looking for something to listen to books on the way to work and back, so I wondered if she should do Audible or something else.

Spotify is an option, as mentioned, but we'd have to separate our accounts or swap the primary with Spotify, somehow.  We merged our two separate Spotify premium accounts a long time ago into a family Premium account.  Didn't know until just recently a very stupid feature about that is that only the primary account gets access to most books.  That's really dumb.  If she wants to listen to books via Spotify, we either have to swap the primary and I'd lose my ability to listen to books (I don't much, but nice to have if wanted), or separate our accounts again.  And two individual premium accounts costs more than the family premium bundle.  Pretty lame.  

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #232 on: June 09, 2025, 11:14:35 AM »
When one opens Libby, you have the option to check out audio or reading.  Probably half the offerings are audio.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #233 on: June 19, 2025, 08:02:01 AM »
I'm slogging through two books by Isaacson, one on da Vinci, one on Franklin.  I do learn a few things, but his writing style is ponderous, to me, and too detailed, too slow.

CatsbyAZ

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #234 on: June 27, 2025, 12:13:57 PM »
Finished reading Barbarian Days: A Surfing Life by William Finnegan. Starting with his boyhood move to Hawaii in the 1960s, Finnegan recounts his enthusiasm discovering the first breaks he surfs on Oahu’s shorefronts: “I was beside myself with excitement just to be in Hawaii. All surfers…spent the bulk of their fantasy lives…in Hawaii. And now I was there, walking on actual Hawaiian sand…and paddling toward Hawaiian waves.”

By high school, and returned to Southern California, surfing is Finnegan’s “absence excuse” for camping out for sunrise waves in Malibu or Newport, spots too well trafficked by then for the “back-to-nature surfing solitude” of the 1950s that he regrets being born too late for.

In 1971, Finnegan drops out of college to live in Maui and surf Honolua Bay. In 1978, he quits railroad work to “search the south seas for ridable waves,” starting in Guam and venturing further south to Samoa and Tongo. His surfer’s determination for the perfect wave appears as an aimless drift to outsiders. Onward to Fiji, a traveler from Texas, taking “a sort of anthropological interest” in the author’s everyday sessions, likens Finnegan to “…every other beach bum…no goals, no cares for tomorrow…If there was an earthquake, you wouldn’t worry about your house or your car. You’d just say, ‘Oh, wow, a new experience.’ All you care about is finding a perfect wave…”

Finnigan’s lushly relived travels bittersweetly realize the impossibility of finding his Maui or Fiji or Gold Coast for yourself because his adventures are the Maui, Fiji, and Australia of the 1970s, shores long since tamed by tourism and commercial development. The lasting fun of Barbarian Days can be channeled into appreciating the livelier days of our own pasts, however more conventional but no less worth carrying forward.



Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #235 on: June 27, 2025, 12:18:13 PM »
Did he have a wake?

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #236 on: July 01, 2025, 05:34:09 PM »
Just finished Sinclair Lewis' 1935 book, It Can't Happen Here
It Can't Happen Here. No reason, honestly. After all, it can't happen here. 

MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #237 on: July 01, 2025, 09:56:17 PM »
"Defensively,as a catcher I lead the major leagues in passed balls in 1967. Which was pretty impressive as I didn't play in every game" Bob Uecker

 

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