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Topic: Odds we have a football season poll

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FearlessF

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #952 on: September 08, 2020, 05:28:46 PM »
political leaders from Nebraska sent a letter a week or two ago

their position is well known
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MaximumSam

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MaximumSam

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FearlessF

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #955 on: September 08, 2020, 09:21:12 PM »
California University of Pennsylvania???

had no idea

had to search the web

learn something every day
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

TyphonInc

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #956 on: September 09, 2020, 12:37:30 AM »

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1303492869395808259?s=19

Condolences to his family and friends. 20 year old's aren't suppose to die, and not like this. 

Perhaps it was just me reading too much into the title, but I read this as a person died of Covid because they played football. But his death wasn't wasn't football related. "The school was not playing football this fall with COVID-19 health concerns forcing sports to be halted by the Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference."

CatsbyAZ

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #957 on: September 09, 2020, 03:25:55 AM »
California University of Pennsylvania???

had no idea

had to search the web

learn something every day


And isn’t there an Indiana University somewhere in Pennsylvania as well?

MaximumSam

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #958 on: September 09, 2020, 07:11:20 AM »
Condolences to his family and friends. 20 year old's aren't suppose to die, and not like this.

Perhaps it was just me reading too much into the title, but I read this as a person died of Covid because they played football. But his death wasn't wasn't football related. "The school was not playing football this fall with COVID-19 health concerns forcing sports to be halted by the Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference."

I'm just adding stuff I see that seems relevant to whether and how the season would be played.  Certainly this is probably being discussed around the B1G offices.  

Kris60

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #959 on: September 09, 2020, 07:37:06 AM »
I'm just adding stuff I see that seems relevant to whether and how the season would be played.  Certainly this is probably being discussed around the B1G offices. 
Yep, and the main reason why they decided not to play, imo. If a school is playing and a player dies it will automatically be assumed he caught it and died as a result of playing football, and then someone will be held responsible for his death.

Cincydawg

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #960 on: September 09, 2020, 07:40:58 AM »
My GUESS if football players will be warned repeatedly and isolated in their dorm versus regular students who likely will be more likely to catch it, I think.

You have the odds of being infected times the odds of dying from it, pretty low odds, until you multiply by however many players and coaches are playing.

Coaches of course are at higher risk.

TyphonInc

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #961 on: September 09, 2020, 10:20:23 AM »
My GUESS if football players will be warned repeatedly and isolated in their dorm versus regular students who likely will be more likely to catch it, I think.

You have the odds of being infected times the odds of dying from it, pretty low odds, until you multiply by however many players and coaches are playing.

Coaches of course are at higher risk.

When playing the numbers game, I have a real hard time coming up with how 115~ish (on OSU's sideline) mostly quarantined people play a weekly game against 115~ish other mostly quarantined people is even remotely close to 115~ish not quarantined people (skipping the weekly game) and instead interacting with 60kish (OSU on campus population) not quarantined people on a daily basis? 
(Both the amount of people they will be interacting with and the frequency of the interactions exponentially increase when not playing football. ie the chance of infection also exponentially increases.)

Add in they go from having daily wellness/temp checks, to having none.
Getting Covid tested 1-3 times a week, to not getting tested.
If a serious condition should arise; having immediate access to the best medical facilities, to waiting for hours/days for local care.  
Having 20-60 structured hours in a safe environment, to being left to their own devices in the wild.

I'm still firmly in the camp that they are much, much safer (from covid) playing the game than not.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #962 on: September 09, 2020, 10:51:24 AM »
Yep, and the main reason why they decided not to play, imo. If a school is playing and a player dies it will automatically be assumed he caught it and died as a result of playing football, and then someone will be held responsible for his death.
Exactly. I've been saying all along that the university Presidents who made that vote were thinking of their own school's reputations. If they are responsible for putting that player on the field and he dies, they get blamed. If it happens completely unrelated to football, they do not. 

My GUESS if football players will be warned repeatedly and isolated in their dorm versus regular students who likely will be more likely to catch it, I think.

You have the odds of being infected times the odds of dying from it, pretty low odds, until you multiply by however many players and coaches are playing.

Coaches of course are at higher risk.
What I took away from that is that a 20 year old athlete, presumably in the lowest risk group, died from COVID complications. 

Of course, he was a 355 lb lineman. Which he was, according to any BMI calculator you look at, grossly obese. But still athletic enough to play football, so clearly he wasn't "out of shape". 

Does this mean that linemen and other high-BMI positions are at high risk despite being world-class athletes? I'm not sure, but it's something I've worried about. The IU lineman also had lasting complications but thankfully didn't die. 

When playing the numbers game, I have a real hard time coming up with how 115~ish (on OSU's sideline) mostly quarantined people play a weekly game against 115~ish other mostly quarantined people is even remotely close to 115~ish not quarantined people (skipping the weekly game) and instead interacting with 60kish (OSU on campus population) not quarantined people on a daily basis?
(Both the amount of people they will be interacting with and the frequency of the interactions exponentially increase when not playing football. ie the chance of infection also exponentially increases.)

Add in they go from having daily wellness/temp checks, to having none.
Getting Covid tested 1-3 times a week, to not getting tested.
If a serious condition should arise; having immediate access to the best medical facilities, to waiting for hours/days for local care. 
Having 20-60 structured hours in a safe environment, to being left to their own devices in the wild.

I'm still firmly in the camp that they are much, much safer (from covid) playing the game than not.
Why is it all or nothing? 

In the offseason (but still on campus) do Ohio State football players get no support from the university, have "minders" to make sure they're completing their classes, have the training table, have access to the weight room and athletic facilities, have access to the same health facilities they have during the season, etc? 

It's a false choice. These universities are already paying their scholarship, room and board, meals, etc. It's not like they are going to kick them to the curb just because the season is postponed. 

utee94

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #963 on: September 09, 2020, 11:18:26 AM »
Exactly. I've been saying all along that the university Presidents who made that vote were thinking of their own school's reputations. If they are responsible for putting that player on the field and he dies, they get blamed. If it happens completely unrelated to football, they do not.
What I took away from that is that a 20 year old athlete, presumably in the lowest risk group, died from COVID complications.

Of course, he was a 355 lb lineman. Which he was, according to any BMI calculator you look at, grossly obese. But still athletic enough to play football, so clearly he wasn't "out of shape".

Does this mean that linemen and other high-BMI positions are at high risk despite being world-class athletes? I'm not sure, but it's something I've worried about. The IU lineman also had lasting complications but thankfully didn't die.
Why is it all or nothing?

In the offseason (but still on campus) do Ohio State football players get no support from the university, have "minders" to make sure they're completing their classes, have the training table, have access to the weight room and athletic facilities, have access to the same health facilities they have during the season, etc?

It's a false choice. These universities are already paying their scholarship, room and board, meals, etc. It's not like they are going to kick them to the curb just because the season is postponed.


Just depends.  Some universities are shutting down entirely and sending on-campus kids home.  Many of the off-campus kids end up going home, too, since all of their classes are online and can be taken remotely from anywhere.  Are all football programs with completely remote learning and no on-campus living allowed, going to be allowed to provide on-campus living, training tables, medical attention, and handlers, when all of the other kids have been booted off campus?

Some might, some likely will not.

So I don't think it's a completely false choice.  We have no idea how EVERY university and EVERY football program will react to the circumstances when all on-campus and in-person interactions are canceled.


FearlessF

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #964 on: September 09, 2020, 11:23:28 AM »
I'm still firmly in the camp that they are much, much safer (from covid) playing the game than not.
Yep, and the main reason why they decided not to play, imo. If a school is playing and a player dies it will automatically be assumed he caught it and died as a result of playing football, and then someone will be held responsible for his death.
It could easily be argued that Jamain Stephens Jr. would still be alive if he were playing football.
Perhaps the university should be held accountable for the decision?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #965 on: September 09, 2020, 11:25:04 AM »
Just depends.  Some universities are shutting down entirely and sending on-campus kids home.  Many of the off-campus kids end up going home, too, since all of their classes are online and can be taken remotely from anywhere.  Are all football programs with completely remote learning and no on-campus living allowed, going to be allowed to provide on-campus living, training tables, medical attention, and handlers, when all of the other kids have been booted off campus?

Some might, some likely will not.

So I don't think it's a completely false choice.
  We have no idea how EVERY university and EVERY football program will react to the circumstances when all on-campus and in-person interactions are canceled.
Where the false choice is presented is that it's ONLY presented as a binary option--at least by those arguing that we must have a season. 

Yet these schools that were planning on having football while not returning students to campus had their athletes on campus. So it's not like there's some NCAA regulation saying that if you don't have students on campus, you have to send your athletes home. 

You may be right that some schools might send their athletes home. But there's nothing that says they have to. Ergo it's a false choice because it's not binary. If a school is responsible and cares about the safety and well-being of their athletes, a safer option than sending them home OR playing may be to keep them on campus, largely in their own sequestered cluster, and continue the support they receive normally. 

But that third way is never discussed by the people who argue it's safer for them to play. They don't argue it's safer for them to be on campus receiving support. They argue it's safer for them to play

 

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