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Topic: NCAA

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utee94

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #140 on: February 06, 2024, 12:10:39 PM »
I don’t decide anything. I’m just stating the obvious.

But if somebody put me in charge I’d put the college back in college football, scale back the coaches pay, and put the extra money back to the university where it belongs , and go back to regional conferences.
Heck yeah, amen brutha.

I'd go back to conference alignments from around 1983, and the associated bowl affiliations.  Let the guys in the ugly sportcoats make the backroom deals again.  

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #141 on: February 06, 2024, 06:36:52 PM »
One underrated thing about the past structure of college football is how healthy having a lot of quality independent programs was.
It helped with scheduling freedom and kept any individual conference from having too much power.  

ND, Penn St, FSU, Miami, S.Carolina, BC, VT, WV, Pitt, Syracuse.....the Big Ten was good enough, the SEC was good enough, the SWC was good enough and the PAC was.....way out there and good enough (thanks to USC).

The independents were like electrons filling in to complete this season/outcome (atom) and that season/outcome.  Not really having them has caused both inequality among the conferences and an obvious, resulting arms race.  

I know "too much" has changed since then, but it's still worthwhile to acknowledge some of these past dynamics.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #142 on: February 06, 2024, 06:58:14 PM »
The SEC is the NFC and the B1G is the AFC.

When we wind up with 2 conferences of 20+ programs each, I hope they don't forget to include the red-headed stepchildren. 

Without average ladies to compare them to, the hotties all start looking kind of 'meh.'
I still think if the goal is to be NFL-Lite (which seems to be the sport's trajectory), there's a point at which diluting the money by paying off the red-headed stepchildren is a less desirable outcome than simply excluding them and accepting that teams will have more losses every year. 

I think that these helmet teams knowing that the goal was a 12-0 or 11-1 season--and scheduling enough patsies to know that anything worse than 9-3 was off the table--was entirely predicated on the idea that you were excluded from the national championship if you DIDN'T have that record. 

But once the 12-team playoff comes in, it immediately changes the calculus of how many losses you can sustain. In a 130-team setup, as a helmet you need to be no worse than a 3-loss team, and may have to be a 2-loss team some years. 

And then go a step further. Let's say you can restrict your "big boy" breakaway division to 28 teams that only play each other, with a 12-team playoff. Now you can probably make the playoffs at 8-4. Maybe even 7-5. 

Keeping a team like Purdue in the field to pad your win totals just means you're letting them have a bunch of money that you want to keep for yourselves. 

The entirety of making everything about the NC excludes the red-headed stepchildren. Might as well just make it official. 

utee94

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #143 on: February 06, 2024, 07:02:16 PM »
One underrated thing about the past structure of college football is how healthy having a lot of quality independent programs was.
It helped with scheduling freedom and kept any individual conference from having too much power. 

ND, Penn St, FSU, Miami, S.Carolina, BC, VT, WV, Pitt, Syracuse.....the Big Ten was good enough, the SEC was good enough, the SWC was good enough and the PAC was.....way out there and good enough (thanks to USC).

The independents were like electrons filling in to complete this season/outcome (atom) and that season/outcome.  Not really having them has caused both inequality among the conferences and an obvious, resulting arms race. 

I know "too much" has changed since then, but it's still worthwhile to acknowledge some of these past dynamics.

Great point.  And also, having an "open" major bowl in the Fiesta, that could match up two great independents without being beholden to a specific conference for one or both slots, was a positive as well. 


OrangeAfroMan

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #144 on: February 07, 2024, 12:52:46 AM »
I still think if the goal is to be NFL-Lite (which seems to be the sport's trajectory), there's a point at which diluting the money by paying off the red-headed stepchildren is a less desirable outcome than simply excluding them and accepting that teams will have more losses every year.

I think that these helmet teams knowing that the goal was a 12-0 or 11-1 season--and scheduling enough patsies to know that anything worse than 9-3 was off the table--was entirely predicated on the idea that you were excluded from the national championship if you DIDN'T have that record.

But once the 12-team playoff comes in, it immediately changes the calculus of how many losses you can sustain. In a 130-team setup, as a helmet you need to be no worse than a 3-loss team, and may have to be a 2-loss team some years.

And then go a step further. Let's say you can restrict your "big boy" breakaway division to 28 teams that only play each other, with a 12-team playoff. Now you can probably make the playoffs at 8-4. Maybe even 7-5.

Keeping a team like Purdue in the field to pad your win totals just means you're letting them have a bunch of money that you want to keep for yourselves.

The entirety of making everything about the NC excludes the red-headed stepchildren. Might as well just make it official.
This makes me throw up in my mouth.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #145 on: February 07, 2024, 08:23:11 AM »
the NFL has 32 teams

some of the smaller market teams are costing the larger market teams money

but, they keep the Lions and Browns around for punching bags
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

847badgerfan

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #146 on: February 07, 2024, 08:50:18 AM »
Simple.
Certain majors get an automatic bonus and you need a 3.5+ gpa in the non-automatic majors to qualify for brain dollars.
It's not that simple.

Being an engineering major at Auburn is not like being an engineering major at Florida.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

utee94

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #147 on: February 07, 2024, 08:59:25 AM »
It's not that simple.

Being an engineering major at Auburn is not like being an engineering major at Florida.

But let's be transparent with the concept-- how many football players are studying engineering at ANY school?  Or ANY of the hardest disciplines, whatever they may be.  It's a really low number.

Is being a "General Studies" major at Florida, harder than being one at Auburn?  Probably, but, by enough to really matter to this discussion?  Not sure about that.

Anyway, none of that, is the reason it doesn't make sense to make the decision to treat them as professional athletes, pay them accordingly, and then tie ANY of that compensation to academics rather than the subject you're actually paying them for...



FearlessF

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #148 on: February 07, 2024, 09:03:42 AM »
the judge said you can't restrict the player's ability to make $$$

education and intelligence got nuttin to do wit it
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MrNubbz

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #149 on: February 07, 2024, 09:20:45 AM »
But let's be transparent with the concept-- how many football players are studying engineering at ANY school?  Or ANY of the hardest disciplines, whatever they may be.  It's a really low number.
Ya maybe the back up long snapper or the kid holding the clipboard next to the coach.Nobody else on the Blue Bloods is splitting any atoms
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847badgerfan

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #150 on: February 07, 2024, 09:43:57 AM »
But let's be transparent with the concept-- how many football players are studying engineering at ANY school?  Or ANY of the hardest disciplines, whatever they may be.  It's a really low number.
Quite a few at my school, honestly.

But also, a lot of communication arts (WTF?) and Ag journalism. More of those types than STEM, for sure.

Starting QB a few years ago was Civil Engineering. I connected with him on LinkedIn and offered him a job (as he was/is obviously disciplined).

He didn't want to move to Illinois (I don't blame him - I don't either).
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Riffraft

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #151 on: February 07, 2024, 09:51:56 AM »
This makes me throw up in my mouth.
Might as well get the mouthwash because this is going to happen.  I am old curmudgeon and want what I had as a teen and early 20s but it ain't going happen and it ain't stopping the direction it is going. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #152 on: February 07, 2024, 10:05:00 AM »
Quite a few at my school, honestly.

But also, a lot of communication arts (WTF?) and Ag journalism. More of those types than STEM, for sure.

Starting QB a few years ago was Civil Engineering. I connected with him on LinkedIn and offered him a job (as he was/is obviously disciplined).

He didn't want to move to Illinois (I don't blame him - I don't either).
I can't find the link right now but when we looked at that report that compared football player SAT scores to general student SAT scores I don't remember Wisconsin standing out. 

Not saying there aren't a few legitimately good students playing ball at UW but I am saying that they are the exception, not the rule.

utee94

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #153 on: February 07, 2024, 11:18:51 AM »
the judge said you can't restrict the player's ability to make $$$

education and intelligence got nuttin to do wit it


Different discussions.  NIL is one thing, it's entirely state-controlled and the NCAA has almost nothing to do with it.  Even some of the rules the NCAA has attempted to put in place, are illegal in some states.

On the other hand, some folks on this thread (and others) are suggesting that the schools be allowed to use those scores of millions of dollars that football is bringing in,  to pay the football players directly, and how it might look if you tried to implement that model.  That's what's being addressed in most of these current responses.


 

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