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Topic: NCAA

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Gigem

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #126 on: February 05, 2024, 11:27:49 AM »
All of these responses, and lots of talk, but everybody on this board knows that the "amateurism" in CFB left sometime in the 80's to early 90's.  

It's well known that football, whether it's the NFL or CFB, is now the number one sport in America.  An average NFL game draws more audience than the World Series.  A marquee matchup in CFB will outdraw almost everything outside of the WS and good NFL games.  In other words, CFB is going to become #2 in terms of ratings.  You can't stop it, unless all the teams, colleges, etc stop putting the games on TV.  And if we did that, the schools would have to accept less revenue, and the coaches/AD's/Asst all the way down to the ticket takers would have to accept less salary and pay.  

They're not going to do that.  They're (people at the top) making millions of dollars per year, interest in the sport has never been higher and it's only getting worse.  

They shut the players out of receiving anything for 30+ years, and they built the league on the backs of players with nothing more than a few thousand for a scholarship and maybe a promise to make it to the league, and most didn't play in the NFL and get the big reward.  That wasn't sustainable, everybody knew it but the idiots in charge of the NCAA refused to budge and now we're stuck with this giant mess.

Of course the players need some kind of compensation.  There is more than enough money to do that, just figure out a way to get it done right.  Portal should not be a free-for-all.  And I think that players who have good academics should have advantages that other players don't.  


847badgerfan

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #127 on: February 05, 2024, 11:45:55 AM »
All of these responses, and lots of talk, but everybody on this board knows that the "amateurism" in CFB left sometime in the 80's to early 90's. 

It's well known that football, whether it's the NFL or CFB, is now the number one sport in America.  An average NFL game draws more audience than the World Series.  A marquee matchup in CFB will outdraw almost everything outside of the WS and good NFL games.  In other words, CFB is going to become #2 in terms of ratings.  You can't stop it, unless all the teams, colleges, etc stop putting the games on TV.  And if we did that, the schools would have to accept less revenue, and the coaches/AD's/Asst all the way down to the ticket takers would have to accept less salary and pay. 

They're not going to do that.  They're (people at the top) making millions of dollars per year, interest in the sport has never been higher and it's only getting worse. 

They shut the players out of receiving anything for 30+ years, and they built the league on the backs of players with nothing more than a few thousand for a scholarship and maybe a promise to make it to the league, and most didn't play in the NFL and get the big reward.  That wasn't sustainable, everybody knew it but the idiots in charge of the NCAA refused to budge and now we're stuck with this giant mess.

Of course the players need some kind of compensation.  There is more than enough money to do that, just figure out a way to get it done right.  Portal should not be a free-for-all.  And I think that players who have good academics should have advantages that other players don't. 


What does that look like?

If you are a player in the General Studies program at Michigan, it's easier to have good academics than a player in the engineering program at Central Michigan.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

utee94

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #128 on: February 05, 2024, 11:56:20 AM »
I get the idealism for wanting to reward grades, but practically, it just doesn't work.  If we're going to treat them as professionals and compensate them, then the only grades that should matter, are how they grade out on the football field, same as any NFL player.

Beyond all that the market value for a football player at Ohio State is much greater than the market value for a football player at Northwestern.  So the Ohio State player should get paid more.  Which is what's happening anyway.  But that's not what most of you are talking about here on this thread.

And the market value for a football player anywhere, is much greater than the market value for a soccer player or volleyball player-- indeed those non-revenue-sport market values are actually negative if you  bother to calculate them.

If you pay football players their market value, then you have to cut a bunch of other sports, because the money that football makes is the only thing that supports all those other sports.  And you can't cut women's sports because of Title IX so basically you have to eradicate every men's sport at a university other than football.

Most of these issues are complete non-starters.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #129 on: February 05, 2024, 12:19:52 PM »
What does that look like?

If you are a player in the General Studies program at Michigan, it's easier to have good academics than a player in the engineering program at Central Michigan.
Right . . .
Unless Central Michigan is just flat cheating and inflating grades for their "student" athletes to keep them eligible and that has happened and will happen all over the place.  No academic restrictions are valid unless they are determined, policed, and enforced from above.  The schools (and even professors) simply can't be trusted to be honest with this stuff. 

It doesn't even take institutional cheating, I guarantee you that there are football fan professors in Madison who would fudge their "curve" if @847badgerfan was failing their class and needed a C to stay eligible if said 847badger happened to be a key contributor to the UW football team.  That is absolutely NOT a knock on UW's academics it is just an acknowledgement of the reality that this would happen EVERYWHERE.  

MrNubbz

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #130 on: February 05, 2024, 01:02:27 PM »
Beyond all that the market value for a football player at Ohio State is much greater than the market value for a football player at Northwestern.  So the Ohio State player should get paid more.  Which is what's happening anyway.  But that's not what most of you are talking about here on this thread.
Friend of mine years ago went to a NU vs tOSU at Ryan Field in Evanston. They were cheering - 'You'll kick our butts but you'll work us"
Don't go to bed with any woman crazier than you. - Frank Zappa

medinabuckeye1

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #131 on: February 05, 2024, 02:25:15 PM »
Friend of mine years ago went to a NU vs tOSU at Ryan Field in Evanston. They were cheering - 'You'll kick our butts but you'll work us"
When I went to a game in Evanston every time the Buckeyes did something good we heard:
"That's alright, that's ok, you will work for us someday."  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #132 on: February 05, 2024, 02:37:21 PM »
When I went to a game in Evanston every time the Buckeyes did something good we heard:
"That's alright, that's ok, you will work for us someday." 
Variation on the theme:
In Law School you learn that:
  • A students become professors
  • B students become Judges
  • C students become Millionaires.  


Gigem

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #133 on: February 05, 2024, 02:56:30 PM »
If you pay football players their market value, then you have to cut a bunch of other sports, 
Nobody cares about anything other than football.  Even College BB is a distant 2nd.  If there is not enough interest for any sport to merit having it then it's just utter bullshit.  It's been suggested several times on this board and elsewhere, but it's worth saying again.  NCAA rules/regs work just fine for the truly amateur sports.  Women's Swimming and Diving, Lacrosse, gymnastics, volleyball.  Same for the men's sports outside of BB and baseball.  

They spend millions of dollars to have all these sports that nobody cares about only because of Title IX.  But if you can figure out how to separate football (and probably basketball) out of amateur athletics and make them their own stand-alone and then simply compare all the money spent on men's sports and women's sports (outside of FB) then obviously all sports will be scaled back.  

Go back to regional conferences, a no team should spend more than 5-6 hours on a bus ride to compete.  You can still have all the other sports, whatever they are.  You just can't spend millions of dollars for them.  

Gigem

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #134 on: February 05, 2024, 02:58:54 PM »
What does that look like?

If you are a player in the General Studies program at Michigan, it's easier to have good academics than a player in the engineering program at Central Michigan.
Agree with you, but they are still student athletes.  At least for now.  

utee94

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #135 on: February 05, 2024, 03:00:54 PM »
Nobody cares about anything other than football.  Even College BB is a distant 2nd.  If there is not enough interest for any sport to merit having it then it's just utter bullshit.  It's been suggested several times on this board and elsewhere, but it's worth saying again.  NCAA rules/regs work just fine for the truly amateur sports.  Women's Swimming and Diving, Lacrosse, gymnastics, volleyball.  Same for the men's sports outside of BB and baseball. 

They spend millions of dollars to have all these sports that nobody cares about only because of Title IX.  But if you can figure out how to separate football (and probably basketball) out of amateur athletics and make them their own stand-alone and then simply compare all the money spent on men's sports and women's sports (outside of FB) then obviously all sports will be scaled back. 

Go back to regional conferences, a no team should spend more than 5-6 hours on a bus ride to compete.  You can still have all the other sports, whatever they are.  You just can't spend millions of dollars for them. 

As I said before, I admire the idealism.

There's a lot of inertia in directions opposite what you're suggesting.  I suppose it's possible to overcome that but I don't think it's likely.

GopherRock

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #136 on: February 05, 2024, 06:31:45 PM »
Agree with you, but they are still student athletes.  At least for now. 
For now, until they aren't. 


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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #137 on: February 05, 2024, 06:54:15 PM »
What does that look like?

If you are a player in the General Studies program at Michigan, it's easier to have good academics than a player in the engineering program at Central Michigan.
Simple.
Certain majors get an automatic bonus and you need a 3.5+ gpa in the non-automatic majors to qualify for brain dollars.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #138 on: February 05, 2024, 06:59:11 PM »
The SEC is the NFC and the B1G is the AFC.

When we wind up with 2 conferences of 20+ programs each, I hope they don't forget to include the red-headed stepchildren.  

Without average ladies to compare them to, the hotties all start looking kind of 'meh.'

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Gigem

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Re: NCAA
« Reply #139 on: February 06, 2024, 11:32:54 AM »
As I said before, I admire the idealism.

There's a lot of inertia in directions opposite what you're suggesting.  I suppose it's possible to overcome that but I don't think it's likely.
I don’t decide anything. I’m just stating the obvious. 

But if somebody put me in charge I’d put the college back in college football, scale back the coaches pay, and put the extra money back to the university where it belongs , and go back to regional conferences. 

 

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