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Topic: NCAA
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Mdot21 · « **Reply #84 on:** February 01, 2024, 03:49:50 PM »

more proof how much it sucks to be a college coach right now....seems like guys are bolting for the NFL if given the chance....

Dude was DeBoer's right hand man and OC/QB coach, not at Bama even 20 seconds and already going to the NFL. Not not only this but heard Michigan was trying to get Jim Leonhard to be their DC and he told them no thanks and he's focusing on NFL opportunities...

CFB on field product is going to take a major hit if none of it's best coaches want to stick around in it....

https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1753147683940806854?s=20

GopherRock · « **Reply #85 on:** February 01, 2024, 03:53:08 PM »

Much of this discussion is repeated verbatim from the discussion around amateurism in the Olympic movement circa 1968.

https://globalsportmatters.com/1968-mexico-city-olympics/2018/10/15/professional-athletes-1968-olympic-games/

Recall that much of this NIL discussion comes from the face that the NCAA absolutely, positively refused to even entertain the prospect of discussing updates to their amateurism model to make it look more like the Olympic model.

Drew4UTk · « **Reply #86 on:** February 01, 2024, 03:54:47 PM »

i hate... hate hate hate.... taking this position because "well, they're doing..." is NOT a defense. integrity is an individual trait. if a group has it it's because the members do- it only takes one of them to ruin it.

anyway... that aside...

the NFL's greatest expense is payroll- as with any company with 50 or more employees... and they had to be drug through courts to part with that for players- and when they did? oh boy... gone were the under $100k salaries for players- i think even the practice squads clear excess of that, now.

you'll find nobody more conservative than me- as conservative, yes, but likely not more... that said, there IS something to the argument the 3%- the bonus collecting CEO's based on stock values and who often collect savings by cutting costs and while abusing worker relations or environments--- there absolutely IS something there that the 'better' companies don't practice.... but they can and often do... and so does the NCAA affiliated schools.... they didn't have the overhead the NFL does and ALL that $$$ went to a PRIVATE collection as athletic departments are stand alone from the university (as a business) and are operated as such... offering nothing in return to the tax payer that funds a good portion of at least state operated schools.

i once read that a single game in Neyland Stadium brought in $21M on average, and this was at least ten years ago if not twenty. A good bit goes to support the other sports, and yes- smaller schools don't make that kind of money, but, they get a handsome payout for playing in Neyland, as an example. People bitch about a mighty school playing a scrub- but the truth is the scrub will agree to playing the mighty team at home and only want a measly 10-15% as opposed to a equally mighty school who will demand 40-50%- it's an economic question and that is it... the rest of it is parade and pageantry to slight the hand and take attention away from the gobs of money. in order to be a mighty school the school has to be competitive at the top tiers- in order to do that they need players and coaches, equipment and facilities.... and they INVEST in such.... and get a nice dividend. UT under the dweeb AD that brought us Kitten and Fooley RAPED the program for everything it was worth and that they could- and the reason UT fell so far- they weren't building to reward the investment long term, they were scrapping the long term built program for instant gratification....

and all the while, the student athlete was the beast of burden being offered a free education (something that is arguably not that valuable to begin with) when it costs the university system (actual academics department) hardly anything more to have 21 students in a class as opposed to 20. that was bull shit of the highest order and if we traded in people on the exchange as we do stocks- there would be NO other return from any other 'legal' stock comparable....

and that's what NIL has offered, even though it doesn't reduce the schools extortion of the kids one bit, which is to allow them to be marketable and pocket something other than a diploma as they risk their bodies for the machine's success.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #87 on:** February 01, 2024, 04:08:15 PM »

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on February 01, 2024, 02:51:58 PM

But all this gets to the point of something utee94 mentioned in the Hotties thread, about Olivia Dunne spearheading an NIL collective for girls.

They weren't being exploited by the schools. But they were being prohibited--perhaps unjustly so--from using their talents to make money.

It is cute you think Olivia Dunne is making money based on her gymnastic talents.

Seriously though, that does raise an issue that I wanted to bring up. If I were the AD at Ohio State, I would want NO PART of hosting LSU in a gymnastics meet.

I read an article a while back about a gymnastics meet that LSU attended. I think it was at Utah but the exact location is not important to the underlying point. Anyway, due to Dunne's stardom there were literally thousands of "fans" (I'm going to say probably mostly pervs) that showed up at the meet (I didn't say "to watch the meet" because it was pretty clear that they were there to get a glimpse of Dunne and if she did something flexible in her gymnastics outfit that was just a bonus).

I see this as a likely disaster. My guess is that a typical gymnastics meet draws maybe a couple hundred "fans" with the bulk of those being parents and family. Throw in a few roommates and a boyfriend or three and that is probably it. Based on that I would guess that the "usual and customary" security for a collegiate gymnastics meet is that the host school hires an offduty cop or *MAYBE* two offduty cops and the most intense security issue they probably EVER face is some hotheaded dad getting belligerent because his little princess got a 9.6 for her routine and he thinks she should have gotten at 10.0.

So imagine for a minute that you are the AD at another school. It doesn't matter which one so for this example I'll use mine. Say you are Gene Smith, AD at Ohio State and you have an upcoming gymnastics meet where LSU will be competing against the Buckeyes in Columbus. It would absolutely be negligent of you not to provide a MASSIVELY upgraded security contingent because at this point Olivia Dunne's fame and draw are known. Worse, you aren't talking about just typical sports fans like for a BB or FB game. Ohio State (and all the big schools) deal with thousands of those many times per year so that is very much in their wheelhouse, they know what they are doing.

In this case you are talking about CREEPY Stalkerish weirdos. I'm sure some of the THOUSANDS of extra "fans" who show up for Dunne's meets are typical college guys and those are probably harmless. They are more following a cultural wave than anything else and anyway to the extent that they are attending to get a glimpse of the very attractive Ms. Dunne, they are college aged guys and she is a college aged girl so there really isn't anything weird going on. Where it gets into creepy territory is that I'm sure that some of those extra fans were guys my age. Typically there are only a VERY few reasons a guy my age shows up at a Women's College Gymnastics Meet:

He is the coach.
His daughter is one of the gymnasts.
He has some other occupational requirement to be there, ie, he sells gymnastics equipment or is the janitor for the arena or something.

That is it. Any other guy past about 25 who shows up is a security nightmare. Recall that Reagan was shot in an effort to get Jodi Foster's attention (apparently Hinkley didn't realize that Foster was on the other team so she wouldn't be interested in him regardless). Multiple Hollywood Starlets have been MURDERED by creepy stalkers who decided that if they couldn't have her, nobody else could either.

Frankly, if I were Gene Smith my first inclination would be to simply cancel the meet. I would view it as not worth the risk to go forward. If not that, my second thought would be to go back to LSU and renegotiate based on circumstances not known nor reasonably foreseeable at the time the contract was signed. More bluntly, I would tell LSU's AD that if tOSU is going to host LSU's Women's Gymnastics team, LSU will have to pay for the enhanced security and I'd determine what exactly was necessary by hiring a security expert so that if this all went South and I got sued I could document that I made all my decisions in accordance with the best professional advice. Then I'd HOPE that my ability to prove that I had made reasonable decisions guided by experts in the field would protect me against the Negligence suit.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #88 on:** February 01, 2024, 04:18:38 PM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2024, 04:08:15 PM

It is cute you think Olivia Dunne is making money based on her gymnastic talents.

Seriously though, that does raise an issue that I wanted to bring up. If I were the AD at Ohio State, I would want NO PART of hosting LSU in a gymnastics meet.

I read an article a while back about a gymnastics meet that LSU attended. I think it was at Utah but the exact location is not important to the underlying point. Anyway, due to Dunne's stardom there were literally thousands of "fans" (I'm going to say probably mostly pervs) that showed up at the meet (I didn't say "to watch the meet" because it was pretty clear that they were there to get a glimpse of Dunne and if she did something flexible in her gymnastics outfit that was just a bonus).

I see this as a likely disaster. My guess is that a typical gymnastics meet draws maybe a couple hundred "fans" with the bulk of those being parents and family. Throw in a few roommates and a boyfriend or three and that is probably it. Based on that I would guess that the "usual and customary" security for a collegiate gymnastics meet is that the host school hires an offduty cop or *MAYBE* two offduty cops and the most intense security issue they probably EVER face is some hotheaded dad getting belligerent because his little princess got a 9.6 for her routine and he thinks she should have gotten at 10.0.

So imagine for a minute that you are the AD at another school. It doesn't matter which one so for this example I'll use mine. Say you are Gene Smith, AD at Ohio State and you have an upcoming gymnastics meet where LSU will be competing against the Buckeyes in Columbus. It would absolutely be negligent of you not to provide a MASSIVELY upgraded security contingent because at this point Olivia Dunne's fame and draw are known. Worse, you aren't talking about just typical sports fans like for a BB or FB game. Ohio State (and all the big schools) deal with thousands of those many times per year so that is very much in their wheelhouse, they know what they are doing.

In this case you are talking about CREEPY Stalkerish weirdos. I'm sure some of the THOUSANDS of extra "fans" who show up for Dunne's meets are typical college guys and those are probably harmless. They are more following a cultural wave than anything else and anyway to the extent that they are attending to get a glimpse of the very attractive Ms. Dunne, they are college aged guys and she is a college aged girl so there really isn't anything weird going on. Where it gets into creepy territory is that I'm sure that some of those extra fans were guys my age. Typically there are only a VERY few reasons a guy my age shows up at a Women's College Gymnastics Meet:
He is the coach.
His daughter is one of the gymnasts.
He has some other occupational requirement to be there, ie, he sells gymnastics equipment or is the janitor for the arena or something.

That is it. Any other guy past about 25 who shows up is a security nightmare. Recall that Reagan was shot in an effort to get Jodi Foster's attention (apparently Hinkley didn't realize that Foster was on the other team so she wouldn't be interested in him regardless). Multiple Hollywood Starlets have been MURDERED by creepy stalkers who decided that if they couldn't have her, nobody else could either.

Frankly, if I were Gene Smith my first inclination would be to simply cancel the meet. I would view it as not worth the risk to go forward. If not that, my second thought would be to go back to LSU and renegotiate based on circumstances not known nor reasonably foreseeable at the time the contract was signed. More bluntly, I would tell LSU's AD that if tOSU is going to host LSU's Women's Gymnastics team, LSU will have to pay for the enhanced security and I'd determine what exactly was necessary by hiring a security expert so that if this all went South and I got sued I could document that I made all my decisions in accordance with the best professional advice. Then I'd HOPE that my ability to prove that I had made reasonable decisions guided by experts in the field would protect me against the Negligence suit.

Everything you said is true. But... What's your point?

Yes, it creates a situation that probably isn't very good... But is that Dunne's "fault", and should she be barred from NIL because of it?

If the point is just to point out unintended consequences, then I get it. But I don't know if there's anything actionable there, which is why I'm asking about the point.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #89 on:** February 01, 2024, 04:24:43 PM »

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 01, 2024, 04:18:38 PM

Everything you said is true. But... What's your point?

Yes, it creates a situation that probably isn't very good... But is that Dunne's "fault", and should she be barred from NIL because of it?

If the point is just to point out unintended consequences, then I get it. But I don't know if there's anything actionable there, which is why I'm asking about the point.

Well, I'm mostly just curious how this will play out. In a case like Dunne, it wouldn't be insane for LSU to ask for a cut of the NIL to cover security costs. That has some dubious optics so I'm not sure it actually goes that way but maybe.

MaximumSam · « **Reply #90 on:** February 01, 2024, 04:28:57 PM »

Quote

It is cute you think Olivia Dunne is making money based on her gymnastic talents.

Honestly, this is reality. I get what you are saying, she's hot and dudes follow her because she is hot. This is true. But it is also because she is great at gymnastics. She isn't hotter than any other random hot girl, but she is a hell of a lot better at one of the most challenging athletic competitions in the world. That's what makes gives her lots of fans.

I wouldn't call Caitlin Clark particularly "hot," but she is easily the most popular woman athlete going, and perhaps the biggest draw in basketball, men or women. It's because she is great.

finally, creepy weirdos hang around men's sports teams, as well. There was a semi-famous incident of one in OSU recruiting. Anyone popular is going to have creepy weirdos.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #91 on:** February 01, 2024, 04:46:05 PM »

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 01, 2024, 01:52:01 PM

scholarships aren't worth jacksh*t. those players are worth WAY more than whatever those scholarships cost the school.

That's part of the Problem as that is the mindset but they are - anyone of those kids could have a career ending injury before the even collect any coin.And if they are collecting NIL scratch IMO then the Scollie should be paid in full back to the University so it may go to someone who thinx they are worth jacksh*t

847badgerfan · « **Reply #92 on:** February 01, 2024, 04:50:57 PM »

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 01, 2024, 01:52:01 PM

scholarships aren't worth jacksh*t. those players are worth WAY more than whatever those scholarships cost the school.

At Wisconsin and most other B1G schools, if you include OOS tuition, room and board, professional training, a nutritionist, food, apparel, and all the rest, it's a $300K investment for each player. That' a little more than jack shit IMO. Then they got a stipend on top of that, for travel to see family, etc.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #93 on:** February 01, 2024, 04:54:20 PM »

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2024, 04:50:57 PM

At Wisconsin and most other B1G schools, if you include OOS tuition, room and board, professional training, a nutritionist, food, apparel, and all the rest, it's a $300K investment for each player. That' a little more than jack shit IMO. Then they got a stipend on top of that, for travel to see family, etc.

This is the inherent problem.

You @847badgerfan and @Mdot21 both have a point. For the STAR QB who is a surefire first round pick, $300k IS Jack Shit. For the backup long snapper who will never get into an NFL game without buying a ticket like the rest of us, it is a fortune.

847badgerfan · « **Reply #94 on:** February 01, 2024, 04:58:57 PM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2024, 04:54:20 PM

This is the inherent problem.

You @847badgerfan and @Mdot21 both have a point. For the STAR QB who is a surefire first round pick, $300k IS Jack Shit. For the backup long snapper who will never get into an NFL game without buying a ticket like the rest of us, it is a fortune.

And you make up for that with NIL.

Enforce the rules that it is not to be used in recruiting, and you take away the multiple transfer and make them sit a year when they do transfer.

Make them employees. $500K/year each for FR. $600K/year for SO, etc. They pay their own tuition. Skin in the game, so to speak.

MaximumSam · « **Reply #95 on:** February 01, 2024, 06:05:57 PM »

I don't think they can arbitrarily set limits on what people get without an act of Congress. That's what is getting them in trouble at every turn.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #96 on:** February 01, 2024, 07:30:40 PM »

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 01, 2024, 04:28:57 PM

Honestly, this is reality. I get what you are saying, she's hot and dudes follow her because she is hot. This is true. But it is also because she is great at gymnastics. She isn't hotter than any other random hot girl, but she is a hell of a lot better at ~~one of the most challenging athletic competitions in the world.~~ orchestrating her online content. That's what makes gives her lots of fans.

I've never heard of her gymnastics successes at all. I assumed she was an Anna Kournikova type (never won, got the most publicity). If she's not.....shrug. It's irrelevant.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #97 on:** February 01, 2024, 07:31:39 PM »

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2024, 04:50:57 PM

At Wisconsin and most other B1G schools, if you include OOS tuition, room and board, professional training, a nutritionist, food, apparel, and all the rest, it's a $300K investment for each player. That' a little more than jack shit IMO. Then they got a stipend on top of that, for travel to see family, etc.

Caleb Williams has that in his couch cushions.

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Topic: NCAA

Mdot21

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GopherRock

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Drew4UTk

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medinabuckeye1

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betarhoalphadelta

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medinabuckeye1

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MaximumSam

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MrNubbz

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847badgerfan

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medinabuckeye1

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847badgerfan

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MaximumSam

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OrangeAfroMan

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OrangeAfroMan

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