header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: NCAA

 (Read 8741 times)

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2024, 09:27:05 AM »
Honestly, the NCAA's impotence is making it hard for me to enjoy the sport.

Impotence, or incompetence?

Which....in a sense, are kind of the same thing, if you think about it.

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37510
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2024, 09:27:28 AM »
hah!

They haven't vacated Harbaugh's wins
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25201
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2024, 09:34:11 AM »
I'm legitimately curious about what, specifically, is bothering you this much about the NCAA's governance?
It's the lack thereof. 

Schools aren't supposed to be allowed to use NIL to recruit, but some are doing it, and nothing is being done about it.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

MaximumSam

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13092
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2024, 09:43:34 AM »
It's the lack thereof.

Schools aren't supposed to be allowed to use NIL to recruit, but some are doing it, and nothing is being done about it.
It's completely unavoidable. They can't really enforce it because the rule makes no sense in the first place. Imagine trying to hire someone but not being able to tell them what they will be paid. It's nonsense.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2024, 09:44:05 AM »
It's the lack thereof.

Schools aren't supposed to be allowed to use NIL to recruit, but some are doing it, and nothing is being done about it.
State laws supersede the NCAA's governance capability in all areas.  This is not a problem the NCAA can solve.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2024, 09:49:12 AM »
It's completely unavoidable. They can't really enforce it because the rule makes no sense in the first place. Imagine trying to hire someone but not being able to tell them what they will be paid. It's nonsense.

All that has to be said to sidestep this-- and is exactly what is being said in many cases-- is: "From our understanding, student athletes with your level achievement, are typically being paid $XXXX by collectives A, B, and C, upon stepping foot on campus.  If you want to know further, go ask players D and E what they're getting, since they're the current starters at the position we're recruiting you for.  That is the kind of payment package that is typical for that position at this university.  But we certainly can't promise it's exactly what you'd be getting-- that would be against the rules."

And if the NCAA tries to make a move to block that kind of activity, BAM, they're almost instantly in violation of dozens of state laws.

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37510
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2024, 09:50:04 AM »
Apparently, Tampering is now legal
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2024, 09:51:45 AM »
I'm legitimately curious about what, specifically, is bothering you this much about the NCAA's governance?
In roughly the past decade we've watched Auburn and Michigan openly flaunt NCAA rules in such a way that literally everyone knew they had cheated and yet they won NC's.  

At this point why is anyone following any of their rules?  If you don't have the power to enforce your rules in a meaningful way then why have rules at all which is the basic sentiment that led to the NIL which is (IMHO) another disaster.  

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2024, 09:53:17 AM »
Apparently, Tampering is now legal
Athletes talking to schools through back channels is nothing new.  The only new thing is that there's now legitimate over-the-table money that can back it up.  And that's because the STATES have made laws to allow it. 

I'm really not trying to defend the NCAA here, but I hear a LOT of misconceptions about what NIL is, and what the NCAA can do to control it.  In reality there's almost no authority the NCAA can assert here, because the states have already exceeded the NCAA's limited power.

And, no NEW governing body is going to be able to supersede state laws, either.  So as long as the rules differ from state to state, there's going to be schools who have it easier, and schools who have it tougher.  That will inevitably create the same kind of friction and frustration between schools, between conferences, and between the new governing body, that we see now with the NCAA.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2024, 10:13:36 AM by utee94 »

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2024, 09:54:03 AM »
Businesses and collectives have to be free to compete, I'd think, and that requires putting your cards on the table and telling a kid what you'll pay, right? 

I agree with the later parts of Tennessee's letter.....it's ridiculous for the NCAA to "allow" NIL and think it will stay separate from recruiting.  I don't see how it possibly could.  If the point of NIL is for kids to be compensated for their...well, NIL, then that kid has a right to know exactly what the compensation will be.  I don't see any way to avoid that.  And once they know, it absolutely factors into the recruiting process because the majority of the time kids will be looking to maximize their earning.  

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2024, 10:01:29 AM »
Businesses and collectives have to be free to compete, I'd think, and that requires putting your cards on the table and telling a kid what you'll pay, right? 

I agree with the later parts of Tennessee's letter.....it's ridiculous for the NCAA to "allow" NIL and think it will stay separate from recruiting.  I don't see how it possibly could.  If the point of NIL is for kids to be compensated for their...well, NIL, then that kid has a right to know exactly what the compensation will be.  I don't see any way to avoid that.  And once they know, it absolutely factors into the recruiting process because the majority of the time kids will be looking to maximize their earning. 
Agree with all of this.

Right now the collectives skirt the rules by saying "Well, this is what people LIKE you have earned.  And, oh, we expect to add 10% per year to our payouts based on increasing donations and endowment growth."  It would be a lot more transparent if they could just state it all openly, but really there's not much difference here.  The kids all get it, they know what they're being promised without it being stated explicitly, and any school whose collectives ultimately welch on the deal, are going to be called out by the current players really quickly, and the recruits will hear that, as well.


medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2024, 10:02:11 AM »
Personally, I was against NIL from the beginning.  It really isn't the NCAA's fault but we are now an NFL lite only with no draft and salary cap to equalize things so it is basically just a question of how much cash you can put into it.  

I suspect that this will actually benefit my school so this isn't a "sour grapes" complaint but in the new era my school isn't trying to compete by being better or recruiting better they are simply trying to compete by paying more.  My school apparently did REALLY well this offseason but I don't celebrate that as Day "selling the program" or whatever because it isn't.  Now it just tells me that tOSU's NIL collectives are better than most.  It is kinda hard to cheer for that.  

I also think it is inevitable that some REALLY rich dude will eventually decide to "buy" a National Championship for his school and it will probably work.  The best example is probably T Boone Pickens who donated MILLIONS over the years to OkSU.  If he were still alive today there would be nothing to stop him from spending $100 Million on what are effectively player salaries for OkSU and then OkSU would instantly become a NC Contender.  With that kind of money they could go into the portal and the recruiting race and pull some of the best players in the Country.  

I *THINK* the main thing preventing this from happening already is that whoever did it would make more enemies than friends.  Example:
Lets say that Phil Knight decided he wanted to buy a NC for Oregon.  He is an old guy with Billions of dollars so why not?  Well, the problem for him is that while Oregon fans would love him for it, fans of basically everybody else would hate him for it so it would probably have a substantial negative impact on Nike.  Same for Papa Johns/Louisville, Under Armor/Maryland, Dominos/Michigan, etc.  

T Boone Pickens makes a better example because (as I understand it) his money came from the wholesale side of the oil industry so if I (random non OkSU fan) was mad at him I wouldn't really have a method to boycott his company's products.  I (or any other random fan) could boycott Nike/Papa Johns/Under Armor/Dominos.  

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2024, 10:16:19 AM »
In roughly the past decade we've watched Auburn and Michigan openly flaunt NCAA rules in such a way that literally everyone knew they had cheated and yet they won NC's. 

At this point why is anyone following any of their rules?  If you don't have the power to enforce your rules in a meaningful way then why have rules at all which is the basic sentiment that led to the NIL which is (IMHO) another disaster. 

I get your frustration.  I'm not sure what could be done to solve it.  I'd say the extreme cases are pretty rare but it's possible they'd become more common with further inactivity to address it.

jgvol

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 4844
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2024, 10:31:42 AM »

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.