header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: NCAA Prez Proposal

 (Read 2056 times)

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA Prez Proposal
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2023, 03:09:14 PM »
This sport sucks. 

I'm not positive about this because it won't be intentional, but I won't be surprised if this was my last year of serious fan engagement with my team. 

Portal's open again....players are leaving, some are probably coming.  I can't keep track and am losing the desire to try.  Most everything about the amateur-status, student-athlete sport I grew up loving has changed. 
It has been going this way for a while for me as well.  

Years ago my brother and I were in Bloomington for a game between Ohio State and Indiana.  Unsurprisingly, the Buckeyes were up big in the second half and had a bunch of backups in on defense.  As is typical, the backups were all overly eager to make a name for themselves by making a big play so Indiana wisely called a screen pass.  It was hilarious to watch.  Indiana's starting O-linemen all faked an attempt to block and all four of Ohio State's D-linemen plus a blitzing Lber each appeared to completely buy the fake and think that they were just so good that they got through then they all charged at the QB who threw a VERY easy pass to the IU RB who had 5 O-linemen in position to block for him while five of tOSU's defenders had taken themselves completely out of the play by falling for the fake blocks.  

IU gained something like 25 yards on the play.  After that my brother looked at me and said "That is ok, we don't want them making that mistake against Michigan in two or three years."  That statement encapsulates a big part of CFB that is just plain gone now.  Will tOSU's D-linemen in 2-3 years be 2023 tOSU freshmen or will they be transfers?  

That is part of it.  

Another part is something we haven't discussed in a while.  A few years ago there was a big article on the gap between "Athlete" SAT scores and general student SAT scores in the B1G and other P5 leagues.  Northwestern didn't report (private school) but the other B1G schools did and the gaps were shocking.  I remember that Michigan had the biggest gap but that really isn't a knock on them.  Everybody's football players had embarrassingly low scores, Michigan's gap was bigger simply because their general student population had the highest scores.  When I dived into the details it became glaringly obvious that the vast majority of the guys we root for on Saturdays wouldn't be able to get into Clown College if they couldn't play ball.  Seriously, the gaps were HUMONGOUS.  The "athlete" scores at the top schools were hundreds of points lower than the LOWEST general student scores.  

Eventually I had to simply accept the reality that when tOSU beats Michigan or when they beat tOSU, it isn't a case of tOSU students beating Michigan students or vice-versa, it is a matter of all of us watching each other's ringers because almost none of the players on the field would be at any of our schools without being world-class athletes.  

So now we've reached a point where (basically) none of the players are legitimate students anyway and they are all playing for NIL cash and have little-or-no loyalty to the school or the staff and they can transfer willy-nilly so I feel like each season is distinct and 2023's group of tOSU ringers came up just short of the playoff so now we'll go to the portal and restock and maybe next year tOSU's ringers will be a little better.  

Then on top of all of that, individual games will no longer be able to keep tOSU out.  It sucked losing to Purdue in 2018 but a BIG part of what kept me intensely interested in each and every game back then was the fact that tOSU's NC hopes could die any given week.  In Ohio State's other games that year they went 13-0 and really looked like a legit NC contender but one Saturday in October they looked like crap and that ONE bad game kept them out of the playoffs.  That ends with the advent of the 12-team CFP next year.  

So now regular season games will consist of my school's ringers playing some other school's ringers in a game that doesn't really matter except perhaps for seeding.  

SuperMario

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1266
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA Prez Proposal
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2023, 03:45:13 PM »

I'm not positive about this because it won't be intentional, but I won't be surprised if this was my last year of serious fan engagement with my team. 

I text almost exactly this to one of good friends last night. I added that I'd like to see Michigan win it all this year because this might be the last year I care about the sport and it's even remotely close to a collegiate game. It's already far from what we grew up with, but moving forward it will be an absolute mess and nowhere near a reflection of the great traditions that created the fanhood. 

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18849
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA Prez Proposal
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2023, 06:24:23 PM »
 It'll get their faces on TV protecting the purity of the sport.
They'd need a time machine to do that.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Entropy

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1432
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA Prez Proposal
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2023, 10:50:35 AM »
I sort of wish the NFL would look at the money in CF and say... "we want that"...   Form a development league that plays in the spring, leveraging existing infrastructure and pay college kids or kids out of HS to join your NFL team.    Basically, pull a lot of the talent from CF and change the whole landscape.

Else, CF just has to admit it is a football league, create a salary cap and just admit, it has nothing to do with the college.   If Nebraska is in the club...fine.  If not... fine.   I no longer invest energy in learning about the kids signing with Nebraska because many will be gone within a few years anyways.  

Brutus Buckeye

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 11239
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA Prez Proposal
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2023, 09:35:20 PM »

I always liked college sports because the money side of professional sports just bores me to tears. I don't care about a gm trying to stay under the salary cap with all of his various contract negotiations at all. But you can't hardly talk about professional sports without it being a large part of the conversation. 

Now, college is getting to be the same way with NIL and TV contracts. blech
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Hawkinole

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2222
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA Prez Proposal
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2023, 01:23:44 AM »
From the Athletic:
The 'haves' separate into their own division, and directly use NIL dollars to pay players, through a trust fund.  Directly, not separate like now.
Would have to offer at least half of all athletes $30K/yr.
They'd get to form their own rules, roster size, and scheduling. 

Possibly would require half the monies to go to female sports.
Schools would opt-in to be part of this sub-division. 
It is an interesting proposal. Ultimately, it seems, it would cut down the number of Olympic sports.

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18849
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA Prez Proposal
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2023, 02:30:23 AM »
If nothing else, I respect his acknowledgement that there are haves and have-nots.  What I've called the big, fat lie that FBS has been propagating is more disrespectful than plain ole honesty.

No, G5 teams don't have a chance at a NC.  Not a real chance.  1984 was never going to happen again - not in the BCS (see TCU, Boise, Utah), not in the playoff (see Cinci - included, but 2 major, consecutive upsets aren't a thing), and ESPECIALLY not in a 12-team playoff (double your required major, consecutive upsets).

Also, the bottom 3rd of each P5 conference doesn't really have any chance, either.  There's no crime in saying so.  I have no idea what influence or power the NCAA president has (he may just be a 'tallest midget'), but at least the idea is based on reality.

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18849
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA Prez Proposal
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2023, 02:47:36 AM »
Best records from 1970-2023, by program:
Northwestern:  10-2 (only season with as few as 2 losses, not counting 2020)
Indiana:  9-3
Wake Forest:  11-3, twice....never ranked higher than 9th in any poll
Iowa St:  9-3, twice
Kansas:  12-1.....but ranked behind six 2-loss teams in final regular season poll....this is a great example of the big, fat lie
Vanderbilt:  9-4, twice - both under Franklin, who parlayed it into a Penn St HC job
Illinois:  10-2, three times...never finished ranked higher than 10th in polls
.
These are the PEAK seasons in the past 50+ years for the worst all-time P5 programs.  The idea that they could win a NC is just mean.  They're fodder for the elite programs - entertaining sacrificial lambs - and have been for decades.
You can only have 8 or 10 or 12 apex predators in a space if there's enough food supplied to them so that they don't eat each other.  That's what college football has been, good or bad.  
Yes, those rare successful 2 or 3-loss seasons were special, but were they worth the other 95% of suckitude?  I can't imagine it's fun paving the way for UM or OSU's march to the Rose Bowl every year.  
.
Anyway, honesty is good.  Time will tell if a bunch of apex programs dining on each other with no fodder will be a good idea or not.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17151
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA Prez Proposal
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2023, 08:17:02 AM »
I sort of wish the NFL would look at the money in CF and say... "we want that"... Form a development league that plays in the spring, leveraging existing infrastructure and pay college kids or kids out of HS to join your NFL team.    Basically, pull a lot of the talent from CF and change the whole landscape.

Else, CF just has to admit it is a football league, create a salary cap and just admit, it has nothing to do with the college.  If Nebraska is in the club...fine.  If not... fine.  I no longer invest energy in learning about the kids signing with Nebraska because many will be gone within a few years anyways. 
Ed Zachery - it's been mine/others POV for quite some time.Basically admit the Top 25 Division I teams are a Minor League that the NFL pays nothing/zippo/nada/zilch for to develop. Just transfer the bill to the League and charge for upkeep and other expenses

 University presidents need to redirect expenses and resources into actuall instruction and improvement
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12188
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA Prez Proposal
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2023, 10:23:33 AM »
These are the PEAK seasons in the past 50+ years for the worst all-time P5 programs.  The idea that they could win a NC is just mean.  They're fodder for the elite programs - entertaining sacrificial lambs - and have been for decades.
You can only have 8 or 10 or 12 apex predators in a space if there's enough food supplied to them so that they don't eat each other.  That's what college football has been, good or bad. 
Yes, those rare successful 2 or 3-loss seasons were special, but were they worth the other 95% of suckitude?  I can't imagine it's fun paving the way for UM or OSU's march to the Rose Bowl every year. 
As a fan of one of those teams that could never win an NC... We knew that. There was no delusion about it. But there was more to the sport than winning an NC. 

As I said before, the NC wasn't even in our thoughts as a Purdue fan. The hierarchy stopped one step short of that. 

What we wanted pretty much in order:

  • Beat IU
  • Beat Notre Dame (we used to play them annually)
  • Become bowl eligible so we can go SOMEWHERE in the post-season
  • Be better than .500 in conference
  • Win enough games to make a decent bowl. You know, somewhere nice. With sun and warmth and palm trees.
  • Somehow win enough games to sneak in and win the Big Ten championship, probably relying on a tiebreaker, but we'll take it!
  • Go to the Rose Bowl

Notice the next steps, of "go undefeated" and "be crowned MNC" weren't even there. 


We KNEW we weren't NC material. But there was dignity and fun in the college football landscape as it was. It wasn't "suckitude". It was the understanding that there are other things to play for than an NC. 

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA Prez Proposal
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2023, 11:07:55 AM »

We KNEW we weren't NC material. But there was dignity and fun in the college football landscape as it was. It wasn't "suckitude". It was the understanding that there are other things to play for than an NC.

That's where the sport is losing me.  It used to be that a good season felt exactly like that....a good season.  The way everything is wired now--and consequently wires us--is it's NC or bust.  There's still some value in winning the conference, but that will be irrelevant soon enough when the B1G and the SEC swallow up the entirety of cfb alongside a 12-team playoff format.  

I'm old enough to remember when making the Sugar Bowl was priority Numero Uno for an LSU fan, and fans didn't think in terms of NCs....not because it was necessarily unattainable, but because winning the conference, going to the Sugar, and finishing top 10 or even top 5 just felt so good.  There was a lot more room for "successful seasons" then.  As some have noted, the playoffs suck all the oxygen out of the room.  NIL/portal/sit-outs don't help.  If you're not in the playoffs now, there's not much that a program like LSU feels good about, other than getting the young guys some reps for next year.  

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71548
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA Prez Proposal
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2023, 08:03:45 AM »
I've noted a thing about the NFL before, games very often are decided by less than a score.  It's akin to having most teams well in the middle, statistically the games are about 50-50, coin tosses.  So you end up with one team at 10-6 and another just about as good at 6-10.  The majority are "average" teams.

And even the "best" team ends up 13-3 or so, which is statistically possible for an average team.  There really isn't much competition as I think of the term.

I think in CFB we're headed to ten or so "elite" teams who dominate year after year after year and the Kansas State fan just folds his tent.

Temp430

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2506
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA Prez Proposal
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2023, 08:59:42 AM »
The NCAA should hold an annual auction as an alternate to the portal and traditional recruitment for student athletes who care most about money.  The auction should allow pooling of booster and athletic department funds and non-liquid assets.
A decade of Victory over Penn State.

All in since 1969

Gigem

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2141
  • Liked:
Re: NCAA Prez Proposal
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2023, 11:14:21 AM »
I sort of wish the NFL would look at the money in CF and say... "we want that"...  Form a development league that plays in the spring, leveraging existing infrastructure and pay college kids or kids out of HS to join your NFL team.    Basically, pull a lot of the talent from CF and change the whole landscape.

Else, CF just has to admit it is a football league, create a salary cap and just admit, it has nothing to do with the college.  If Nebraska is in the club...fine.  If not... fine.  I no longer invest energy in learning about the kids signing with Nebraska because many will be gone within a few years anyways. 
I honestly think this is a great idea for several reasons. 

#1 being that the players who absolutely are not college material can just skip the whole faux college thing altogether. We all know 70/90% of these guys would never set foot on campus otherwise. 

I say let’s put the college back in college football. Just like baseball, some players would go to the D league straight out of HS. The best would go to the NFL in 1-3 years. The ones who really want to go to college and have the academics can still play CFB. But they have to get into the school. No more special exceptions. 

The league w should then keep the 3 year rule for the draft. And we should let our athletes play 5 years. No redshirt. No medical redshirt. Just 5 years to play 5. That’s fair. 



 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.