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Topic: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...

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MrNubbz

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #84 on: March 15, 2021, 06:03:54 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 15, 2021, 04:11:37 PM
 and a boxcar full of freight packed floor to ceiling seems to be a more economically-efficient use of transportation resources than a big car full of air with a couple whiny and annoying passengers in it.
You must have been Cornelius Vanderbilt in another life
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847badgerfan

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #85 on: March 15, 2021, 06:20:36 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 15, 2021, 05:07:55 PM
I've literally never ridden in a real train, for the aforementioned reasons - it's slower AND expensive.  Dumbest combination ever.
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But if you had a high-volume HSR, it would make all the sense in the world. 

Don't you guys find it odd that our 2 real options of travel are a car going 70 mph you drive and maintain OR a giant cylinder 5 miles high going 500 mph that you have nothing else to do with? 

The gap between those 2 is VAST.
Seriously?

I rode the train a ton to commute to Chicago, where I once had an office. Between time, gas and parking, the train was a no brainer.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #86 on: March 15, 2021, 06:21:11 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on March 15, 2021, 06:03:54 PM
You must have been Cornelius Vanderbilt in another life
One of The Men Who Built America.
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bayareabadger

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #87 on: March 15, 2021, 07:19:36 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 15, 2021, 03:44:37 PM
A better question is why so many people love the idea of HSR so much--or light rail--or rail in general?

What exactly is the draw? Why should we do it?
I assume you mean in terms of long-distance travel, not short distance travel, correct?
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bayareabadger

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #88 on: March 15, 2021, 07:23:23 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2021, 06:20:36 PM
Seriously?

I rode the train a ton to commute to Chicago, where I once had an office. Between time, gas and parking, the train was a no brainer.
In the modern era, also efficent because you can actually do something with your hands/attention. Read a book, catch up on emails. 

The few times I've had public transit commutes (a summer or two), man I was better read.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #89 on: March 15, 2021, 07:53:12 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on March 15, 2021, 07:19:36 PM
I assume you mean in terms of long-distance travel, not short distance travel, correct?
Either.

HSR seems to be almost a fetish in that people think we need it so terribly badly, and that it's a stain on America's reputation that we "lag" other nations in HSR. 

What's so alluring about it?
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MaximumSam

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #90 on: March 15, 2021, 08:12:24 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 15, 2021, 07:53:12 PM
Either.

HSR seems to be almost a fetish in that people think we need it so terribly badly, and that it's a stain on America's reputation that we "lag" other nations in HSR.

What's so alluring about it?
I don't know if "need" is the right word. But back before COVID I did the whole rush hour commute to work and home. It was 40 minutes each way. Traffic sucks, the efficiency is absolutely terrible.  By any conceivable metric public transportation is more efficient than each individual person rising in their own car.  Parking lots and freeways are a blight in every city.  The need for roads and parking everywhere make every single city less livable and enjoyable.  So while we don't "need" HSR, I can see the attraction.
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bayareabadger

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #91 on: March 15, 2021, 09:00:36 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 15, 2021, 07:53:12 PM
Either.

HSR seems to be almost a fetish in that people think we need it so terribly badly, and that it's a stain on America's reputation that we "lag" other nations in HSR.

What's so alluring about it?
I mean, they allow for much, much more efficent transit space-wise in high-usage routes? (I was thinking more of light/commuter rail, which it seemed like you also took issue with)

If you're going to a place that's dense, car storage and mobility are a nightmare. I have family that worked in SF. To go to work cost $25 a day before factoring in gas and wear and tear. And I lived about 7.4 miles from the close end of the bridge. Some folks come from farther than that. Light rail is a tremendous advantage there. In some spots it's just a park-and-ride arrangement that skips traffic and fosters growth. 

I don't totally know the full ins and outs of HSR, so I can't speak on it directly. It seems like there are certain spots it would make sense if the geography allowed. Something like Madison to Milwaukee (that might be too hilly). The kind of thing where 75 miles or so to expand commuting range. SF to San Jose is I think not geographically feasible (too much in the way maybe?).
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bayareabadger

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #92 on: March 15, 2021, 09:02:22 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on March 15, 2021, 08:12:24 PM
I don't know if "need" is the right word. But back before COVID I did the whole rush hour commute to work and home. It was 40 minutes each way. Traffic sucks, the efficiency is absolutely terrible.  By any conceivable metric public transportation is more efficient than each individual person rising in their own car.  Parking lots and freeways are a blight in every city.  The need for roads and parking everywhere make every single city less livable and enjoyable.  So while we don't "need" HSR, I can see the attraction.
I think some of it comes down to design and what's baked in. A place like Indianapolis is exquisite in its traffic flow. A place like Nashville is growing into a nightmare of poor planning. NY paradoxically has the most useful public transit, but was also designed without enough public transit by a somewhat crazy person with a misbegotten understanding of the motor vehicle. 
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #93 on: March 15, 2021, 09:37:10 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 15, 2021, 05:58:19 PM

----


You see this is the problem with HSR. If it's truly high speed, it only makes sense point-to-point, which makes it very impractical for anyone who doesn't have the same origin and destination. If you force it to have stops, it's a lot more useful, but no longer high speed...
That's why you have lines of each - one with no stops and the other to service many stops.  
For the Florida idea - if you live in St. Augustine, you get on the line that stops a few times before you get to Orlando, then get on the non-stop line all the way down to Miami.  
If there was some national network, you'd take the fast line that only stops at major hubs, and you'd only take the many-stops line from the hub nearest your destination.
.
Idk, I'm not a HSR lover, I just think we can do better than what we have.
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FearlessF

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #94 on: March 15, 2021, 10:11:35 PM »
if it was a really good idea, the private sector would have done it or will do it.

no sense throwing tax dollars at something that won't support itself
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #95 on: March 15, 2021, 10:27:08 PM »
For Browns games we used to park in a distant suburb, and take the train to the stadium. We were able to dodge all the game traffic that way, which cut at least an hour off of the drive each way. The most hectic part of the drive too. There was one transfer that took like five minutes, and other than that it was a straight shot. It cost like a dollar or two to park at the train station, which was a fairly secure place to leave your car. 
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bayareabadger

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #96 on: March 15, 2021, 10:59:01 PM »
Quote from: FearlessF on March 15, 2021, 10:11:35 PM
if it was a really good idea, the private sector would have done it or will do it.

no sense throwing tax dollars at something that won't support itself
My friend, I don't want to be rude, but this logic has two issues.

1. By this logic, the interstate highway system is not a "really good idea." The roads outside my house are not a "really good idea." This is silly. There are some things that exist as public goods. 
2. Beyond the question of profitability, the key issue is it's just an enormously high barrier to entry proposition. Like even if it was profitable, almost no modern business is going to get into it. I'm sure there are some modern markets that function like that, but not many.
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MrNubbz

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #97 on: March 15, 2021, 11:05:16 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2021, 06:21:11 PM
One of The Men Who Built America.
That was a great program,Rockerfeller was a Cleveland Guy but what a Bastage.After about 30 yrs in business when oil looked to be on it's way out Henry Ford starts mass producing Horseless Carrieges with internal combustion engines."Hey John I think we found something to do with that oil by product gasoline" how freakin' lucky can one guy get - and he lived into his 90s I believe
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