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Topic: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...

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MarqHusker

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #252 on: March 18, 2021, 04:24:24 PM »
I like the idea, in concept. Entrances and exits could be complicated.

This has been floated in Chicago too, and has also been implemented a little bit.

McCormick Place is built over tracks, but those were there prior to the buildings. There has been talk of covering the area in yellow with a park, to increase lakeshore access.


This reminds me of the last time I was at Mccormick place.  The uber guys were squeezed out of doing pickups at Mccormick.  You had to meet them off property.  The unions, the pols, the graft. Chicago is so insufferable in many respects, in spite of its many other attributes.

GopherRock

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #253 on: March 18, 2021, 04:53:26 PM »
A lid over that section of the tracks would make getting into and out of Soldier Field orders of magnitude easier. The only time I ever went there for an event, everyone was being squeezed through a very narrow choke point on the west side of the stadium. No one was allowed out the south end towards the parking garage.

Sometimes I wish us civil engineers would have the audacity to think sideways. Most of the ideas about how to deal with urban and human-scale issues mostly come from the architects, planners, and politicians. I know I was the only civil engineer that was showing any interest in transit planning, land use, zoning, etc. when I was in undergrad. There is still a lot of institutional intertia within MnDOT about working on Complete Streets issues.

847badgerfan

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #254 on: March 18, 2021, 05:01:59 PM »
Yeah, f'ing architects, planners and politicians dump shit (literally) on us and say "make it work". 

Been happening to me for 37 years.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #255 on: March 18, 2021, 05:10:59 PM »
I live in a very walkable city (low SES Maryvale, where I'm the 1%), living adjacent to a post office (shipping out game orders) and a Super Walmart.  Although, I prefer riding my bike with a backpack if I'm going grocery shopping there.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #256 on: March 18, 2021, 05:25:07 PM »
I just view it as a low-stakes place to toss stuff out there. 

Are EV batteries a certain shape and could they be a different shape?
They're not universally a certain shape today, so they could be basically any shape that makes sense.

Tesla uses commercially-available battery shapes, that look like oversized AA batteries--and by oversized I don't mean *that* much oversized. Kinda the size of your thumb. Some have said that cylindrical shape is a waste of space.

Other vendors have used and proposed other styles. Audi for example uses a flexible "pouch" style battery, which has been described as about the size of a bag of coffee. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #257 on: March 18, 2021, 05:51:39 PM »
They're seriously that small and everyone calls me an idiot for thinking switching them out will be the way?    Yeeesh.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

847badgerfan

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #258 on: March 18, 2021, 06:22:47 PM »
I think they are that small, but there's like a million of them.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #259 on: March 18, 2021, 06:23:07 PM »
They're seriously that small and everyone calls me an idiot for thinking switching them out will be the way?    Yeeesh.
Um ....


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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #260 on: March 18, 2021, 06:59:19 PM »
I think they are that small, but there's like a million of them.
Well that's kind of important to know.  I was asking about the whole battery thing, whatever that is, not a tiny portion.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #261 on: March 18, 2021, 07:25:30 PM »
Well that's kind of important to know.  I was asking about the whole battery thing, whatever that is, not a tiny portion.
Yeah, the Tesla battery packs are thousands of those cells. The Audi are hundreds of those pouches. And they're not individually serviceable. 

But again per your question there is no "standard" size/shape/weight for the entire pack. It's unique to each EV and it's built into the chassis of the vehicle. Further, it's built in such a way as to be modular, so they can have a "standard range" and a "long range" EV that both simply contain different numbers of modules in the configuration...

There is no standardization whatsoever.

FearlessF

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #262 on: March 18, 2021, 07:31:55 PM »
yet
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #263 on: March 18, 2021, 07:39:57 PM »
yet
As someone who deals with things that must be industry-standard in order to sell to customers who treat them as commodities, I understand the market desire for standardization...

...and I don't see what will drive it here. 

Each major automaker will drive enough volume to create a form factor for batteries that meet their own requirements. Some of them may actually try to become vertically integrated in battery tech, and at that point they don't need an industry standard because they're building for themselves. The smarts really get into the module construction and management, which isn't in the purview of the battery manufacturer. 

We may see a drive to standardization. Especially if the market moved to battery swaps... But I don't think that's going to happen for numerous other reasons.


bayareabadger

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #264 on: March 18, 2021, 07:56:42 PM »
The difference and the complication is that the roads and parking lots are needed first so when they a built it is for current needs and maybe a little overbuilt for projected growth.

As discussed at length in this thread, public transit needs density to be worthwhile. Until that density is reached, it is highly inefficient.

That creates another issue. Once the requisite density is reached it is either too late to go back and retrofit light rail or subway onto the existing infrastructure. I shouldn't say "too late", it isn't impossible, just massively expensive. It would be fairly cheap to build a subway or light rail in the middle of nowhere but that would also be useless. It is vastly more expensive to build a subway or light rail in a high density area where it would actually be useful.
I mean, I agree with many of these points, but also disagree at points. 

So, the argument about roads and parking lots being needed first sort of implies a new city or something. Most cities, at least at the start, were designed around roads for limited car usage and without much parking at all. Now, cities expanded out. Some parts had space to stretch in that way, some didn't, and some didn't develop semi-dense centers farther out. 

So you end up with sort of a guessing game. Can you build transit through less expensive land before it's gobbled up? Can you guess that a place will grow in that way. Some don't (Phoenix, Houston). But that's the same way with roads. Building bigger, more robust highway systems that allow for better traffic flow is easier and cheaper when it's not needed. But that's infrastructure. 

And the takeaway is kinda an odd one. Like, public transit is super pricy. And things that make driving easier are also really pricy and unless you get it fantastically right often don't make stuff better. So I suppose the answer is do nothing a let places choke themselves out, but in the end people have this pesky habit of trying to do things to make the places they live nicer, for better or worse.

FearlessF

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Re: Major changes in our lives over the next decade ...
« Reply #265 on: March 18, 2021, 08:45:39 PM »
As someone who deals with things that must be industry-standard in order to sell to customers who treat them as commodities, I understand the market desire for standardization...

...and I don't see what will drive it here.

Each major automaker will drive enough volume to create a form factor for batteries that meet their own requirements. Some of them may actually try to become vertically integrated in battery tech, and at that point they don't need an industry standard because they're building for themselves. The smarts really get into the module construction and management, which isn't in the purview of the battery manufacturer.

We may see a drive to standardization. Especially if the market moved to battery swaps... But I don't think that's going to happen for numerous other reasons.


too early to tell, but if a battery manufacturer makes a break through, they could be making batteries for all vehicles
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