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Topic: K-12 Education

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847badgerfan

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Re: K-12 Education
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2023, 02:23:49 PM »
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Gigem

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Re: K-12 Education
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2023, 05:15:53 PM »
We’d get our asses beat at school in the 80’s and 90’s. Some kids never learned. Trouble makers got expelled eventually. 

Now schools are expected to put up with little Johnny no matter how much shit he stirs up. 

bayareabadger

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Re: K-12 Education
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2023, 05:17:30 PM »
Another problem. It's dated and only for Illinois, but still.

Too Many School Districts In Illinois? What You Should Know About School Consolidation - Better Government Association
Oh school consolidation issues fascinate me to no end. 

They’re often a tough narrative sell, but they do matter 

utee94

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Re: K-12 Education
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2023, 05:38:24 PM »
Irregardless


OrangeAfroMan

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Re: K-12 Education
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2023, 07:47:49 PM »
I was depressed in the spring of 2022.  Not clinically, I just didn't enjoy my day-to-day life. 
I had a student that dominated 99% of my attention and would literally scream at the top of his lungs when he got in a mood. 
That was fun.  It was the first year of my career my class did poorly on the standardized testing.  There wasn't anything for admin to do with him.  He wasn't violent towards others really, just psychotic.  He'd accidently drop a water bottle, start screaming.  He'd purposely drop it, start screaming.  And he was the highest kid in the class.
The parents were delusional.
The counselor's load was so high, she saw him for 30 min a week.
He did not change all year.
He was never absent.
.
There's my whining schpiel.
The reality of education is that it's bad and getting worse.  Everyone is quitting because it's not a good life.  I have younger students and I have to be "on" all day.  So when I get home, I do nothing for 2-3 hours.  Then I can go do things and be social and function.
There are no substitute teachers.  So if someone is out, we split their class and figure out seating for them.  If I'm out, the prep and knowing I'm stressing out my grade level team really sucks.  I pride myself on not taking a day off until April 1st (Opening Day for MLB) each year (~135 days into the school year).
.
I get that people want their own kids to go to the best school possible. 
BUT...while you're at your better school that's further away, the public neighborhood school you left is worse by you leaving.  It would be one thing if it was a random sample of 5 or 10% of the students, but it's 100% of the most involved parents.  Our best students.  Gone.  So what we have left are teachers trying their best without those students that are a pleasure to work with.  A higher % of the students are the behavior issues, low students, neglected and/or worse.  Every proponent of "school choice" is mathematically guaranteeing that the public schools worsen. 
.
Why not improve it?  Why not have more buy-in?  Why not build your fellow parents up rather than look down on them and run away? 
Rhetorical questions, I know.  It's not anyone's job to do that.  It's hard.  Etc.
.
I don't fault admins for how they behave.  They're watching their school population decrease in quality, let's say, while at the same time being told they must improve the school.  Do better with less.  Not less money, but the money is largely irrelevant.  It's the school community.  It's the stakeholders (students, teachers, parents, admin) not having cohesion. 
For admin, they're in a horse race with an ever-aging horse and a jockey who loves buffets.
.
I went to UF, a pretty good school.  I had good SATs, high IQ, two college grads as parents (accountant and civil engineer).  I CHOSE to teach.  It was an arrogant reason, but I didn't trust anyone to do it better. 
With good teachers, you were given more leeway because you have a track record and have earned trust.  For new or poor teachers, you were expected to stick to the script, so to speak ( and literally, often times).  But nowadays, they want everyone on that script.  It's not about trust, it's about not getting sued.  Not causing waves.  Just do what won't get us in trouble. 
.
I had a student with 92 absences last year.  Over half the school year, all haphazardly.  Didn't learn much of anything, was emotional many days, etc.  Not a great situation for her, obviously. 
But her test scores are factored into my "teacher effectiveness" just like the student there everyday with a healthy home life.  Good stuff.
I'm not going to quit.  Last year was a fantastic class, overall.  They were so good to each other and I kept them engaged.  We were a healthy, happy community in our little piece of the school. 
I hate the idea of quitting.  I'm not a quitter.  But to be honest, if I had a bunch of money in the bank, I probably would have caved into my depression and quit, hired an employee, and tried to greatly expand my side business.  Honestly, any job sounded better than my daily reality. 
.
It's stupid that I have a mindset that I'm going to out-tough whatever this occupation throws at me.  Kids.  Learning.  Shouldn't take any amount of toughness. 
Give me some kids and a tree providing shade, and I'll teach them anything you want me to.  Don't need all the other crap, good or bad.  It's all unnecessary crap.









« Last Edit: July 25, 2023, 07:53:35 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Honestbuckeye

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Re: K-12 Education
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2023, 08:05:13 PM »
Great post Fro.  Much respect to you for that refusal to quit- and that burning desire to help kids.  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Gigem

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Re: K-12 Education
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2023, 08:59:25 PM »
I was depressed in the spring of 2022.  Not clinically, I just didn't enjoy my day-to-day life. 
I had a student that dominated 99% of my attention and would literally scream at the top of his lungs when he got in a mood. 
That was fun.  It was the first year of my career my class did poorly on the standardized testing.  There wasn't anything for admin to do with him.  He wasn't violent towards others really, just psychotic.  He'd accidently drop a water bottle, start screaming.  He'd purposely drop it, start screaming.  And he was the highest kid in the class.
The parents were delusional.
The counselor's load was so high, she saw him for 30 min a week.
He did not change all year.
He was never absent.
.
There's my whining schpiel.
The reality of education is that it's bad and getting worse.  Everyone is quitting because it's not a good life.  I have younger students and I have to be "on" all day.  So when I get home, I do nothing for 2-3 hours.  Then I can go do things and be social and function.
There are no substitute teachers.  So if someone is out, we split their class and figure out seating for them.  If I'm out, the prep and knowing I'm stressing out my grade level team really sucks.  I pride myself on not taking a day off until April 1st (Opening Day for MLB) each year (~135 days into the school year).
.
I get that people want their own kids to go to the best school possible. 
BUT...while you're at your better school that's further away, the public neighborhood school you left is worse by you leaving.  It would be one thing if it was a random sample of 5 or 10% of the students, but it's 100% of the most involved parents.  Our best students.  Gone.  So what we have left are teachers trying their best without those students that are a pleasure to work with.  A higher % of the students are the behavior issues, low students, neglected and/or worse.  Every proponent of "school choice" is mathematically guaranteeing that the public schools worsen. 
.
Why not improve it?  Why not have more buy-in?  Why not build your fellow parents up rather than look down on them and run away? 
Rhetorical questions, I know.  It's not anyone's job to do that.  It's hard.  Etc.
.
I don't fault admins for how they behave.  They're watching their school population decrease in quality, let's say, while at the same time being told they must improve the school.  Do better with less.  Not less money, but the money is largely irrelevant.  It's the school community.  It's the stakeholders (students, teachers, parents, admin) not having cohesion. 
For admin, they're in a horse race with an ever-aging horse and a jockey who loves buffets.
.
I went to UF, a pretty good school.  I had good SATs, high IQ, two college grads as parents (accountant and civil engineer).  I CHOSE to teach.  It was an arrogant reason, but I didn't trust anyone to do it better. 
With good teachers, you were given more leeway because you have a track record and have earned trust.  For new or poor teachers, you were expected to stick to the script, so to speak ( and literally, often times).  But nowadays, they want everyone on that script.  It's not about trust, it's about not getting sued.  Not causing waves.  Just do what won't get us in trouble. 
.
I had a student with 92 absences last year.  Over half the school year, all haphazardly.  Didn't learn much of anything, was emotional many days, etc.  Not a great situation for her, obviously. 
But her test scores are factored into my "teacher effectiveness" just like the student there everyday with a healthy home life.  Good stuff.
I'm not going to quit.  Last year was a fantastic class, overall.  They were so good to each other and I kept them engaged.  We were a healthy, happy community in our little piece of the school. 
I hate the idea of quitting.  I'm not a quitter.  But to be honest, if I had a bunch of money in the bank, I probably would have caved into my depression and quit, hired an employee, and tried to greatly expand my side business.  Honestly, any job sounded better than my daily reality. 
.
It's stupid that I have a mindset that I'm going to out-tough whatever this occupation throws at me.  Kids.  Learning.  Shouldn't take any amount of toughness. 
Give me some kids and a tree providing shade, and I'll teach them anything you want me to.  Don't need all the other crap, good or bad.  It's all unnecessary crap.
I very much respect this. Keep on going. Don’t let the bad outweigh the good. 

847badgerfan

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Re: K-12 Education
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2023, 07:27:18 AM »
That last part really made me smile.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: K-12 Education
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2023, 09:36:36 AM »
Our family sponsors a $40 K a year college s-ship at the HS my kids attended.  It's meant for kids who do well at everything, but not quite well enough to get a ship for a something.  It has been pretty rewarding to learn something about the winners.  Some of them are from what we'd consider disadvantaged homes, at least economically.  One was the son of my mailman, I had no idea until the mailman saw me and mentioned it to me.  I'm on FB with several of them still.  I attended the wedding of one, his father broke down in tears when he saw me.  The guy was a truck driver, he said it changed his son's life.

Money can make a difference, but a committed capable teacher makes more difference, as no doubt a few have in all our lives.

LetsGoPeay

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Re: K-12 Education
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2023, 02:07:09 PM »
I'm a high school principal. I like to think I'm in touch with the classroom and teachers. I view my job as being the shield to protect the teachers so they can do their jobs. That means I run interference for them as I take on the parents, handle the discipline, fight the cellphone battle, try to curb the vaping, ask for money for safety, go to kid's houses with our SRO to get them to come to school, substitute in classes, and try to focus on what's important: the kids.

I was named in three separate lawsuits last year. One, an alleged federal civil rights violation revolving around JV volleyball, is slated to go to trial. Another, in which I was accused of breaking a student's hand with an Ipad (he actually broke it on another kid's head a couple of weeks earlier) resulted in reports to DCS and the sheriff's department. The complaints were summarily dropped by both agencies and their lawyer told them "thanks but no thanks" but I had to explain to my kids why I was home for a week,  which was fun. I also got the privilege of being smeared on Facebook by the family and verbally berated and called "a child abuser" by the father while grocery shopping one Saturday. I now opt for grocery delivery. I filed a police report on that incident and make sure I always have my cell phone with me when I go out in public just in case.

Everything that's been stated is true. We struggle to fill any position we have. I was able to hire a chemistry/physics teacher this morning. I think he'll work out but he was our only applicant and may not last beyond a year. We can't compete with the local hardware store's pay when trying to hire hourly employees, especially since we can't allow them to work more than 29 hours a week or they'll have to be offered insurance. We have to get creative to find teachers now unless someone falls into our lap like the aforementioned chemistry/physics guy. That means we seek out people with degrees (doesn't necessarily have to be associated with the subject they teach) and any level of interest and train them to be teachers on the fly. Fortunately, some of our best hires lately have been these people. That's fortunate because teacher preparation programs at universities are graduating people at all-time low rates.

We are regarded as one of the better schools in our area which is great. Our enrollment has increased by 15% in the last two years. But now we have more students and our building is already at capacity. We don't have money to hire more teachers or assistants for even more students much less add classrooms.

It's a mess. It's not getting any better. I'm working on my doctorate with the intention of moving into the private sector and/or university teaching, preferably online. I just need three more years at my current pay or above to set my pension and then I'm out.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2023, 02:17:15 PM by LetsGoPeay »

Cincydawg

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Re: K-12 Education
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2023, 02:12:49 PM »
Wow, bless you Sir.

847badgerfan

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Re: K-12 Education
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2023, 03:15:28 PM »
Indeed. 
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: K-12 Education
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2023, 07:49:12 PM »
That's why I don't blame admin for anything.  All the bad news they have to give teachers is dictated by the school board/superintendent or by a lack of monies.
Kind of a middle man, sidetracked by an avalanche of BS while at the same time tasked with perpetual improvements. Yet treated like a QB:  all the credit and all the blame.
No one's job in education is easy and it's getting worse.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: K-12 Education
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2023, 08:19:42 AM »
I'd call this our worst, most critical national problem, and that's a long list of competition.

 

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