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Topic: Remaining Undefeated, 1-Loss, and Winless Teams after Week 8

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ohio1317

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Remaining Undefeated, 1-Loss, and Winless Teams after Week 8
« on: October 22, 2019, 10:10:03 AM »
Teams with 1st loss Week 8:
Wisconsin
Boise State

Teams with 2nd loss Week 8:
Michigan
Arizona State
Temple
Missouri
Tulane

Teams with 1st win Week 8:
none

Maximum number of Undefeated Teams at the End of the Regular Season:
6: Clemson, Oklahoma/Baylor, Alabama/LSU, Ohio State/Minnesota/Penn State, SMU, Appalachian State
This is one team shorter thanks to Boise State's loss to BYU leaves the Mountain West with no undefeated teams.

Teams with 1st loss:
Week 0 and 1: 35.38% (46 of 130)
Week 2: 38.01% (32 of 84)
Week 3: 32.69% (17 of 52)
Week 4: 34.29% (12 of 35)
Week 5: 21.74% (5 of 23)
Week 6: 11.11% (2 of 18)
Week 7: 25% (4 of 16)
Week 8: 16.67% (2 of 12)

Week 8 Thoughts:
-First I'll note that Rice came very close to leaving the winless column up late vs.UTSA, but ended up losing.

-Some big things within conferences this week. Let's start with the Big Ten. Wisconsin's loss to Illinois is a stunner. Wisconsin was one of the teams shooting into the national spotlight as a possible CFP bowl level team and this derails that. They are definitely still in it, but the path is more narrow, almost certainly requiring an undefeated season and a tad amount of luck. The division is another thing that can't be considered locked up with Minnesota starting to really play well and with both teams remaining schedules (Iowa can't be counted out either). On the eastern side of the conference, Penn State beating Michigan gives them and the Buckeyes a two game lead on everyone else. It's now highly doubtful that anyone except these two are going to Indianapolis (although far from impossible).

-PAC-12 had the best news it could have with Oregon winning a close on at Washington. This was Oregon's toughest game left on paper and the win leaves them very much in the CFP bowl hunt and puts them in a commanding lead in the north. They need help for the CFP, but their only loss is to a good Auburn team and the overall strength of the PAC-12 isn't bad (they just don't have dominant teams at the top). The only other team in the conference now with a remote CFP chance is Utah who is the only other 1-loss team after beating formerly fellow 1-loss team Arizona State.

-In the Big 12, Baylor keeps being underdogs and keeps winning. With Texas lucky to escape Kansas this week, the possibility of the bears making the Big 12 championship game are starting to look greater. I wouldn't bet on them just yet, but they are already 4-0 in conference.

-Lot's of movement with the Group of 5 Cotton Bowl bid this week. Biggest news by far was Boise State losing to BYU. This eliminates the last Mountain West undefeated and probably the team who was most likely to end undefeated. This leaves just the American's SMU and the Sun Belt's Appalachian State undefeated.

I have been kind of glossing over Appalachian State at points, but in retrospect that is not fair. They have a win at North Carolina and a game at South Carolina still to come. Given South Carolina's victory over Georgia and progress that would look fairly decent at least. While the Sun Belt schedule might not be as strong as others, add in those two wins and it is at least debatable they will pass a 1-loss American and/or Mountain West Champion.

Week 9 Thoughts:
We have no games between undefeated teams. Our undefeated teams play in the following: Undefeated SMU @ Houston (Thursday), 1-loss Wisconsin @ undefeated Ohio State, undefeated Oklahoma @ Kansas State, Undefeated Appalachian State @ South Alabama, 1-loss Auburn @ undefeated LSU, undefeated Penn State @ Michigan State, Maryland @ undefeated Minnesota, Arkansas @ undefeated Alabama, and Boston College @ undefeated Clemson

1-loss Wisconsin @ undefeated Ohio State: Game lost a bit of luster after Wisconsin's loss last week, but this is about the worst time to play the Badgers in my view. They still have all the talent and are going to be very focused here. That said, lose this one and Wisconsin won't be able to lose any more and likely take the division.

1-loss Auburn @ undefeated LSU: Auburn's schedule has seemed too difficult this year to make the Fiesta/Peach Bowls, but they are certainly a top talent and very capable of taking down LSU. SEC offices will be rooting hard for LSU to win and set-up a potential 1 vs. 2 match-up with Alabama early next month.

Undefeated Penn State @ Michigan State: Penn State is only a 6 point favorite here. Seeing how they compare to Michigan State vs. how Ohio State looked will at least be interesting.

1-loss Notre Dame @ Michigan: This is I believe the last of the currently scheduled games between these two. Michigan opens as a slight favorite. Winning would be great for the Big Ten. Notre Dame needs to win to stay in the hunt for a CFP spot and might even for a NY6 spot.

Our winless teams play in the following games: Southern Miss @ winless Rice, winless New Mexico State @ Georgia Southern, winless Akron @ Northern Illiniois. Of the three, Rice is most likely to win, but still a 10 point underdog.

 Remaining Undefeated Teams:
ACC: 1, American Athletic: 1, Big 12: 2, Big Ten: 3, Mountain West: 0, SEC: 2, Sun Belt: 1, total: 10
Clemson
Baylor
Oklahoma
Minnesota
Ohio State
Penn State
Southern Methodist
Alabama
Louisiana State
Appalachian State


1-loss Teams: ACC: 1, American: 3, Big 12: 0, Big Ten: 1, Conference USA: 2, Mountain West: 2, PAC-12: 2, SEC: 3, Sun Belt: 0, independents: 1, total: 15
Cincinnati
Louisiana Tech
San Diego State
Oregon
Utah
Notre Dame
Navy
UAB
Auburn
Georgia
Florida
Wake Forest
Memphis
Wisconsin
Boise State

Remaining Winless Teams: Conference USA: 1, MAC: 1, independents: 1, total: 3
Rice
Akron
New Mexico State

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Remaining Undefeated, 1-Loss, and Winless Teams after Week 8
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2019, 10:48:22 AM »
Last week there were seven possible games between undefeated teams, this week we are down to just five.  


  • 11/9:  LSU at Bama
  • 11/9:  PSU at Minnesota
  • 11/16:  Oklahoma at Baylor
  • 11/23:  PSU at tOSU (if this happens it will be for a spot in the B1GCG)
  • 12/7:  tOSU vs Minnesota (B1GCG)


While there are five games that could possibly match undefeated teams, only a maximum of four could actually occur because the result of #2 (PSU @ MN) will necessarily eliminate either #4 (PSU @ tOSU) or #5 (tOSU vs MN).  

Undefeated teams in the polls (using AP here):
  • #1 Bama
  • #2 LSU
  • #3 tOSU
  • #4 Clemson
  • #5 Oklahoma
  • #6 Penn State
  • #14 Baylor
  • #16 SMU
  • #17 Minnesota
  • #21 Appalachian State


The contiguous block of undefeated P5 teams at the top shrunk this week to six.  Those six plus Baylor and Minnesota and the three 1-loss SEC teams effectively control their own CFP destiny.  Everybody else is pretty much waiting for somebody to lose.  

rolltidefan

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Re: Remaining Undefeated, 1-Loss, and Winless Teams after Week 8
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2019, 11:45:56 AM »
wisc probably controls their own destiny as well. 3 ranked games left, plus the b1g ccg vs another likely highly ranked opp. with the pac basically out, there aren't 4 other p5 conf to take up all the spot with undefeated teams.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Remaining Undefeated, 1-Loss, and Winless Teams after Week 8
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 12:18:54 PM »
wisc probably controls their own destiny as well. 3 ranked games left, plus the b1g ccg vs another likely highly ranked opp. with the pac basically out, there aren't 4 other p5 conf to take up all the spot with undefeated teams.
They might, but it isn't nearly as certain as it is for the P5 undefeated teams and the 1-loss SEC teams.  

Wisconsin currently trails 6-1 Oregon and 5-1 Utah in the AP poll.  As you noted, they have three games left against currently ranked opponents (@#3 tOSU, vs #20 IA, @ #17 MN) but their loss is just terrible.  

If the final spot comes down to a choice between a 12-1 Wisconsin that lost to a (probably) sub .500 Illinois against a 12-1 Oregon or Utah team with a MUCH better loss I can't be sure that the committee would go with the Badgers.   

MikeDeTiger

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Re: Remaining Undefeated, 1-Loss, and Winless Teams after Week 8
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2019, 12:27:25 PM »
Taking into account the quality of ONE loss and ignoring the quality of several other wins or lack thereof DOES unfortunately sound like something voters would do have done.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Remaining Undefeated, 1-Loss, and Winless Teams after Week 8
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2019, 12:37:11 PM »
Taking into account the quality of ONE loss and ignoring the quality of several other wins or lack thereof DOES unfortunately sound like something voters would do have done. 
I'm trying to stay out of that for now.  I'm just saying that I'm not sure what they would do so I do NOT think that Wisconsin "controls their own destiny".  

I think some of this debate may just be semantics.  In the BB threads, @ELA and I are hardliners on the term "lock".  We both see "lock" as meaning that even if a team lost every remaining game, got the worst possible opponent in their conference tournament, and everything else went the worst way possible for them, they would STILL make the tournament.  I view this in a very similar way.  I stated that 11 teams control their own destiny, those teams are:
  • 7-0 Bama
  • 7-0 LSU
  • 7-0 tOSU
  • 7-0 Clemson
  • 7-0 Oklahoma
  • 7-0 Penn State
  • 7-1 Florida
  • 6-1 Auburn
  • 6-1 Georgia
  • 7-0 Baylor
  • 7-0 Minnesota

By winning out, all except UF, Auburn, and UGA would be 13-0 P5 Champions and there are guaranteed to be no more than four of those.  That would get any of them in.  The other three would be a 12-1 SEC Champion and there would be no more than three undefeated P5 Champions.  I think it is clear that a 12-1 Florida, Auburn, or Georgia would get in ahead of a 12-1 Oregon or Utah.  

That is all the farther I will go.  I cannot be sure what would happen beyond that.  


ohio1317

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Re: Remaining Undefeated, 1-Loss, and Winless Teams after Week 8
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2019, 10:48:05 PM »
I agree.  I think 12-1 Wisconsin would be in, but I could see scenarios where they could possibly be left out. Oklahoma and Clemson winning out will give it to them. If you have Georgia or Florida win out and beat a previous unbeaten Alabama or LSU, the SEC would almost certainly get two.  None of that even gets into Oregon which at 12-1 with the lone loss a close one to Auburn would at least be in debate for (I'd lean Wisconsin there, but it would depend on how both looked down the stretch in my view).

In short, winning out probably gives Wisconsin a 90% or so chance, but is not quite enough to lock it down without help.

 

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