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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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utee94

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46900 on: July 16, 2025, 05:19:48 PM »
I'm not a first amendment scholar, but I've got more than a passing knowledge of it. That sounds facially unconstitutional. I'm sure the courts will get a chance to weigh in.
Time, place, and manner restrictions on public demonstrations have existed for a long time.  Not sure why you think this is not acceptable.

Personally, as a parent of a student who will be living on a college campus next year, I'm in favor of reasonable protections of her safety.

Nobody is telling protestors they can't demonstrate at all.  And nobody is telling them they can't demonstrate on college campuses.  Restricting such demonstrations to daytime only is perfectly reasonable IMO.  And if they want to demonstrate more openly, there are other places like City Hall and the State Capitol, where they may do so.

Of course, there's still a law against overnight camping on public grounds.  So encampments are going to be unacceptable regardless.

SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46901 on: July 16, 2025, 05:28:34 PM »
As I said, the courts will get their chance.

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46902 on: July 16, 2025, 05:36:22 PM »
Maybe it's not well-written, but I think it's pretty obvious they're trying to say, "you can't claim first amendment protection because we're prohibiting it in this specific location during this specific time window."

Which might be poorly worded and it might be unconstitutional, although I think the state has an interest in protecting the rights of the residents, and that the rights of the residents in this case supersede the rights of protestors.  All rights only extend to the point that they don't infringe on the rights of others, that's a pretty basic tenet in our society.
If the government passes a law that has the ability to go far beyond what a charitable reader of it would say is the goal, I tend to look at it somewhat askew. Especially when it says, “broad constitutional rights have a bed time.”

I think it’s fine and good that a government tries to discourage specific lawless action. When it does so in broad and vague ways that leave a ton of room for overreach, that seems not ideal, especially because it trusts in the goodness of government employees to behave themselves.

Now, such a thing could probably be accomplished with a combination of any-camping rules and noise ordinances (I bet there’s something to deal with large gatherings that doesn’t run afoul of things). Strikes me as less over-broad.

It’s admittedly a little funny to me that we’re returning to the “free-speech zone” era. a bunch of libertarian organizations sued those out of existence, and that really good branding prevented people from understanding that most conservative-leaning folks (outside the hardcore libertarians) were probably in favor them.

utee94

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46903 on: July 16, 2025, 05:37:23 PM »
As I said, the courts will get their chance.
Maybe.  Maybe not.  On its face, it all seems pretty reasonable to me.  And I'm pretty familiar with the first amendment, as well.

Time, place, and manner restrictions allow the government to restrict these factors as long as they're non-discriminatory in their application, as long as they serve a state interest like public safety, and as long as there are alternative channels for the demonstrators to pursue their goals.  All of these requirements appear to be satisfied by this bill.


utee94

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46904 on: July 16, 2025, 05:39:41 PM »
If the government passes a law that has the ability to go far beyond what a charitable reader of it would say is the goal, I tend to look at it somewhat askew. Especially when it says, “broad constitutional rights have a bed time.”

I think it’s fine and good that a government tries to discourage specific lawless action. When it does so in broad and vague ways that leave a ton of room for overreach, that seems not ideal, especially because it trusts in the goodness of government employees to behave themselves.

Now, such a thing could probably be accomplished with a combination of any-camping rules and noise ordinances (I bet there’s something to deal with large gatherings that doesn’t run afoul of things). Strikes me as less over-broad.

It’s admittedly a little funny to me that we’re returning to the “free-speech zone” era. a bunch of libertarian organizations sued those out of existence, and that really good branding prevented people from understanding that most conservative-leaning folks (outside the hardcore libertarians) were probably in favor them.

Eh, they're free to demonstrate at the Capitol or City Hall as long as they like.

I think that making a distinction for college campuses, in the interest of protecting students and student residents whose rights supersede those of protestors who have ample other avenues to demonstrate, is appropriate.

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46905 on: July 16, 2025, 06:10:28 PM »
Eh, they're free to demonstrate at the Capitol or City Hall as long as they like.

I think that making a distinction for college campuses, in the interest of protecting students and student residents whose rights supersede those of protestors who have ample other avenues to demonstrate, is appropriate.
The issue at hand is not about the particular targeting of campuses. 

Honestbuckeye

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46906 on: July 16, 2025, 06:40:51 PM »
Given the extreme destruction and violence of the college campus demonstrations I’m not only have no problem With this, I support it.  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46907 on: July 16, 2025, 06:53:35 PM »
Each of our rights has limits, the courts decide eventually if some limit has gone too far.

A college can probably attach stricter limits to a thing than a city or state  

utee94

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46908 on: July 16, 2025, 11:38:16 PM »
The issue at hand is not about the particular targeting of campuses.
I'm not sure what you're getting at, because in the case of this bill, the issue at hand is precisely the protection of campuses versus other publicly owned spaces.


847badgerfan

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847badgerfan

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46911 on: July 17, 2025, 07:06:06 AM »

Cincydawg

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bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46913 on: July 17, 2025, 09:16:32 AM »

I'm not sure what you're getting at, because in the case of this bill, the issue at hand is precisely the protection of campuses versus other publicly owned spaces.


I'm getting at the fact that the text of this law prohibits all expressive acts, expressly defined as anything the first amendment and Texas constitution protects, for more than 2/5s of the day.

The first amendment protects a hell of a lot more than protests. The state constitution's article says "Every person shall be at liberty to speak, write or publish his opinions on any subject, being responsible for the abuse of that privilege." So on Texas campuses, every person being able to "speak, write or publish," their opinions is prohibited.

"This law is actually fine" is an opinion. "The school president sucks" is too. It means on Red River Rivalry day, by the letter of the law, at 7:30 a.m I can't yell "Brent Venables looks like skeletor" on Texas' campus, nor can I put it on a sign and wave that around. That's all protected speech, and apparently prohibited.

Now, I understand that the government will not enforce this law, save for when it wants to for whatever reason it wants to. But I have enough libertarian streak in me to not want to give the government broad leeway to not only suspend constitutional rights but prohibit their exercise. Plenty of overreach has been, can and will be cloaked in "well we're doing a good thing." If you're gonna work toward a good thing, best to narrowly target the problems, with as little ground given to the government to run roughshod over liberties. That's what I'm getting at.

 

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