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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45318 on: June 13, 2025, 01:47:58 PM »
My focus here is all economic so I'll start with Elon Musk:
He obviously contributes more to SS/Medicare than he'll ever receive so I'm not worried about him. 
I was responding to this with a doubt Musk really has even paid into SS.  And if he did, FICA taxes are capped (as are benefits).  If he lives long enough, he'd get more than he paid in.  

I'm clearly not referring to how much his salaried employees are paying in FICA taxes.

SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45319 on: June 13, 2025, 01:53:09 PM »
I don't think there's a lot of evidence that the day-laborers and other semi- or unskilled workers that are here without documentation are actually competing with semi- or unskilled U.S. citizens for work. Would be happy to look at evidence that shows I'm wrong. There is a very strong correlation between the amount of immigration to this country and the joblessness rate (i.e., the lower the unemployment rate, the higher the immigration). Unsurprisingly, most people come for the jobs.

The point about Musk is important: the response is, well, he's a productive member of society--but that's a backward looking argument; he wasn't a bazillionaire when he was an undocumented immigrant. Also, he's obviously an outlier because of his massive wealth, but I think there would be pretty broad agreement on immigration if the standard were that: productive member of society. There's a lot of evidence that undocumented immigrants contribute a great deal to our economy. But I know that many of you don't believe the studies that I've seen; for whatever reasons you think those studies can't be trusted/must be wrong.

And before we all go down a bunch of rabbit holes--I'm just offering a perspective, I think one that was solicited.

jgvol

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45320 on: June 13, 2025, 01:58:38 PM »
I don't think there's a lot of evidence that the day-laborers and other semi- or unskilled workers that are here without documentation are actually competing with semi- or unskilled U.S. citizens for work. Would be happy to look at evidence that shows I'm wrong. There is a very strong correlation between the amount of immigration to this country and the joblessness rate (i.e., the lower the unemployment rate, the higher the immigration). Unsurprisingly, most people come for the jobs.

The point about Musk is important: the response is, well, he's a productive member of society--but that's a backward looking argument; he wasn't a bazillionaire when he was an undocumented immigrant. Also, he's obviously an outlier because of his massive wealth, but I think there would be pretty broad agreement on immigration if the standard were that: productive member of society. There's a lot of evidence that undocumented immigrants contribute a great deal to our economy. But I know that many of you don't believe the studies that I've seen; for whatever reasons you think those studies can't be trusted/must be wrong.

And before we all go down a bunch of rabbit holes--I'm just offering a perspective, I think one that was solicited.

Indeed.  And why there should be vetting of all immigrants.

Swing open the turnstiles, and well.....here we are, at odds.  And we don't have to be -- if the rules are followed.

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45321 on: June 13, 2025, 02:33:22 PM »
Wonder how much the people he employs pay in?
That's only half of it.

Musk (the employer) pays the other half. Kinda like me.

Ya think I'll ever see what I put in?
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45322 on: June 13, 2025, 02:35:17 PM »
I was responding to this with a doubt Musk really has even paid into SS.  And if he did, FICA taxes are capped (as are benefits).  If he lives long enough, he'd get more than he paid in. 

I'm clearly not referring to how much his salaried employees are paying in FICA taxes.
And he pays the other half of what his employees pay in.

I'm baffled at how many people don't understand this fact.
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847badgerfan

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45324 on: June 13, 2025, 02:44:31 PM »
And he pays the other half of what his employees pay in.

I'm baffled at how many people don't understand this fact.
Musk doesn't pay, Tesla would pay.  If Musk doesn't have a salary, he would personally pay zero in FICA taxes.  He would get clipped a bit on any capital gains paying into Medicare (3.8%).  That isn't a FICA tax.  

I'd be surprised a bit if Musk has taken a salary in quite a few years.   No salary. no FICA.

How Elon Musk’s $44.9B Tesla pay package compares to other top U.S. CEO plans | PBS News

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45325 on: June 13, 2025, 02:58:34 PM »
Musk doesn't pay, Tesla would pay.  If Musk doesn't have a salary, he would personally pay zero in FICA taxes.  He would get clipped a bit on any capital gains paying into Medicare (3.8%).  That isn't a FICA tax. 

I'd be surprised a bit if Musk has taken a salary in quite a few years.  No salary. no FICA.

How Elon Musk’s $44.9B Tesla pay package compares to other top U.S. CEO plans | PBS News
please. Musk is Tesla. he is a co-founder of the company, he is the CEO and controls the board, he was a chief engineer/product designer/technology officer who invested countless millions of his own dollars to get that company off the ground- he invested $6.5 million of his own dollars in the first $7 million raised required to actually get the company off the ground- it had no product when he got there- he was the marketing force and face of the company from it's founding to capital raises to IPO to this day.

Tesla is the success that it is today because of one man- Elon Musk. this is not like a Jamie Dimon at Chase situation where he was just some random fuckface who worked at a huge public company that has existed for 100+ years and became the CEO. Musk is the sole driving force at Tesla and they are the smashing success story that they are today which employs 100,000+ people that contributes to FICA taxes because of him. Period. End of story.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45326 on: June 13, 2025, 03:01:05 PM »
Sometimes staying on point can be useful, but at others, it's better to point to entirely unrelated issues to generate smoke.

Musk, himself, likely does not pay FICA taxes, and may not have paid much over time.  It hinges on whether he took salary, nothing else.


847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45327 on: June 13, 2025, 03:04:29 PM »
Sometimes staying on point can be useful, but at others, it's better to point to entirely unrelated issues to generate smoke.

Musk, himself, likely does not pay FICA taxes, and may not have paid much over time.  It hinges on whether he took salary, nothing else.


Tesla employs 100,000 + people. These are not people making minimum wage. FICA maxes out at $176,100.00.

If 100,000 + people are making $176,100, the 6.5% FICA input from Musk's Tesla company is $1,144,650,000.00

Is that good?
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45328 on: June 13, 2025, 03:07:52 PM »
It's all terrific.  And entirely unrelated to the small point I was attempting to make.

And Musk only owns about 13% of Tesla stock, so it's not as if it's all his by any stretch.


847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45329 on: June 13, 2025, 03:12:58 PM »
The point is that Musk indirectly pays FICA in the same fashion that I do.
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Mdot21

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45330 on: June 13, 2025, 03:13:33 PM »
Sometimes staying on point can be useful, but at others, it's better to point to entirely unrelated issues to generate smoke.

Musk, himself, likely does not pay FICA taxes, and may not have paid much over time.  It hinges on whether he took salary, nothing else.
you are purposely being dense. no one is that stupid. the man has founded/co-founded/bought at least 6 major entities which employ A LOT of Americans and pays into FICA. he deserves a massive amount of credit for this and it is a NET BENEFIT to the tax system.

get back to me when you found/built/control a company which employs 125,000 people in the United States. 

Quick Google search says average salary for Tesla employee is around $65,000. Employer pays 7.65% of the FICA tax. Tesla has roughly 125,000 employees. $65,000 x 7.65% = $4,972.50. $4,972.50 x 125,000 = $621,562,500. Obviously that's patchwork guesswork- but that's just one entity of his.

Now do the other entities he founded/co-founded/wholly owns (Twitter, SpaceX) and you'll see the man is responsible for LOTS of FICA taxes getting paid into the system. he doesn't draw a salary as far as I know- and it's besides the point- who gives a fuck what he personally pays into FICA when so much is generated into FICA BECAUSE OF HIM.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #45331 on: June 13, 2025, 03:16:16 PM »
The point is that Musk indirectly pays FICA in the same fashion that I do.
Do I pay FICA because I own some Apple stock?


 

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