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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42714 on: March 06, 2025, 10:27:23 AM »
The problem with a lot of the pro-Palestinean/pro-Hamas/anti-Semitic protests on campuses was not their free speech, it was their chants for violence--which is not constitutionally allowed, in my understanding--and in some cases actual violence. 

For what it’s worth, chance for violence are allowed, for the most part. There’s a kind of narrow category where it’s not, with a fairly high standard

jgvol

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42715 on: March 06, 2025, 10:31:50 AM »
So by this logic, Rosa Parks lightly violated the rights of a few dozen people?

(The fantasizing about driving over people kind of strikes me as a little weird, but hey, it is allowed)

The law usually won't do anything to remove the protestors from the road.

There has to be some deterrent to obstructing people's movements. 

When words and reason are no longer are effective, the next logical step is vroom vroom MFers.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42716 on: March 06, 2025, 10:34:52 AM »
The police around here do get protesters out of the road, fairly forcefully, if they don't leave.

There is obviously various points at which protests become illegal.  There also can be good reason after that point to make some efforts to negotiate with failure being then arrest.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42717 on: March 06, 2025, 10:35:46 AM »
For what it’s worth, chance for violence are allowed, for the most part. There’s a kind of narrow category where it’s not, with a fairly high standard


According to the Supreme Court in Brandenburg vs. Ohio (1969), chants for violence are generally not allowed, since the court ruling said "incitement to violence" is not protected under the First Amendment.  A chant for violence and incitement to violence is a difference without distinction, and I believe that has held many times since then when it was cared to be enforced.

I'm not a lawyer, so some of our local shysters could weight in and tell me if I'm wrong.  


https://www.oyez.org/cases/1968/492

jgvol

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42718 on: March 06, 2025, 10:43:24 AM »

According to the Supreme Court in Brandenburg vs. Ohio (1969), chants for violence are generally not allowed, since the court ruling said "incitement to violence" is not protected under the First Amendment.  A chant for violence and incitement to violence is a difference without distinction, and I believe that has held many times since then when it was cared to be enforced.

I'm not a lawyer, so some of our local shysters could weight in and tell me if I'm wrong. 


https://www.oyez.org/cases/1968/492


"Americans have watched in horror for more than a year now, as Jewish students have been assaulted and harassed on elite university campuses - repeatedly overrun by antisemitic students and agitators," Trump's new Secretary of Education, Linda McMahon, said in a statement.
McMahon added that "unlawful encampments and demonstrations have completely paralysed day-to-day campus operations, depriving Jewish students of learning opportunities to which they are entitled".
In January, Trump signed an executive order that called for the removal of foreign students who participated in protests.
The order also directed government departments to make recommendations that could allow educational institutions to "monitor for and report activities by alien students and staff" and, if warranted, remove them.


The red text is all they are concerned with.  The blue text I have absolutely no issue with.


utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42719 on: March 06, 2025, 10:58:53 AM »
I was satisfied with the way UT's president handled the attempts at illegal protests on the UT campus.  He was accused of being heavy-handed when he sent in the state troopers on the very first day, but what they did was ensure that illegal overnight encampments and illegal barricades to public buildings were never established, and the protests went on during the day as they were legally allowed to do, and disbanded every evening as they were legally required to do.  After a few days of their perfectly legal protests, they got bored with only being allowed to use their own first amendment rights and not infringe on the rights of everyone else, so they stopped doing it.

All of the bleeding hearts insisted he should be removed from office.  And everyone else gave him a pat on the shoulder and an attaboy.

Of the several university presidents who had large protests flare up on their campuses around that time, he's one of the few that still has his job.

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42720 on: March 06, 2025, 11:00:22 AM »
Amen.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42721 on: March 06, 2025, 11:13:54 AM »
I was satisfied with the way UT's president handled the attempts at illegal protests on the UT campus.  He was accused of being heavy-handed when he sent in the state troopers on the very first day, but what they did was ensure that illegal overnight encampments and illegal barricades to public buildings were never established, and the protests went on during the day as they were legally allowed to do, and disbanded every evening as they were legally required to do.  After a few days of their perfectly legal protests, they got bored with only being allowed to use their own first amendment rights and not infringe on the rights of everyone else, so they stopped doing it.

All of the bleeding hearts insisted he should be removed from office.  And everyone else gave him a pat on the shoulder and an attaboy.

Of the several university presidents who had large protests flare up on their campuses around that time, he's one of the few that still has his job.
that is exactly how it aught to be handled. people have the right to exercise their first amendment rights to free speech and freedom of assembly. they do not have the right to trespass, vandalize property, commit actual violence or spew direct threats of violence verbally, or obstruct traffic on public roads. 

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42722 on: March 06, 2025, 11:30:12 AM »

According to the Supreme Court in Brandenburg vs. Ohio (1969), chants for violence are generally not allowed, since the court ruling said "incitement to violence" is not protected under the First Amendment.  A chant for violence and incitement to violence is a difference without distinction, and I believe that has held many times since then when it was cared to be enforced.

I'm not a lawyer, so some of our local shysters could weight in and tell me if I'm wrong. 


https://www.oyez.org/cases/1968/492
The speech has to be directed at inciting imminent lawless action and be likely to incite such action. 

Speaking about general action is usually protected. 

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42723 on: March 06, 2025, 11:44:28 AM »
I was satisfied with the way UT's president handled the attempts at illegal protests on the UT campus.  He was accused of being heavy-handed when he sent in the state troopers on the very first day, but what they did was ensure that illegal overnight encampments and illegal barricades to public buildings were never established, and the protests went on during the day as they were legally allowed to do, and disbanded every evening as they were legally required to do.  After a few days of their perfectly legal protests, they got bored with only being allowed to use their own first amendment rights and not infringe on the rights of everyone else, so they stopped doing it.

All of the bleeding hearts insisted he should be removed from office.  And everyone else gave him a pat on the shoulder and an attaboy.

Of the several university presidents who had large protests flare up on their campuses around that time, he's one of the few that still has his job.
Although I’m mildly skeptical of a pre-emptive crackdown, the letting people (ironically) colonize spaces seemed to produce very little value. I don’t even mind some light camping, but it always led to barricades and other BS.

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42724 on: March 06, 2025, 11:45:44 AM »
So by this logic, Rosa Parks lightly violated the rights of a few dozen people?

(The fantasizing about driving over people kind of strikes me as a little weird, but hey, it is allowed)
No, Rosa Parks simply sat in a bus seat. That in no way impeded anyone else's commute. If the bus driver refused to drive the bus, that was on him, not her.

And as to driving over people, I have seen plenty of video of protestors blocking roadways and even pulling people out of cars. That would put me in fear of death or bodily harm at which point, I am out of there. If you are standing in the middle of the road, sorry about your luck. 

847badgerfan

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U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42726 on: March 06, 2025, 11:51:46 AM »
No, Rosa Parks simply sat in a bus seat. That in no way impeded anyone else's commute. If the bus driver refused to drive the bus, that was on him, not her.

And as to driving over people, I have seen plenty of video of protestors blocking roadways and even pulling people out of cars. That would put me in fear of death or bodily harm at which point, I am out of there. If you are standing in the middle of the road, sorry about your luck.
The intentionally violated the law on that bus. it meant the police were gonna be called, therefore someone’s commute going to be impeded.

I think there are certain times when protesters create those situations, and then I say that’s a bad beat for them. But if they’re not creating a dangerous situation, I’m less sympathetic to what feels like violent urges from drivers.

It also opens up the path to armed protesters defending themselves against pedal-happy drivers with different viewpoints, and that feels like a tricky road to go now

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #42727 on: March 06, 2025, 11:53:53 AM »
The intentionally violated the law on that bus. it meant the police were gonna be called, therefore someone’s commute going to be impeded.

I think there are certain times when protesters create those situations, and then I say that’s a bad beat for them. But if they’re not creating a dangerous situation, I’m less sympathetic to what feels like violent urges from drivers.

It also opens up the path to armed protesters defending themselves against pedal-happy drivers with different viewpoints, and that feels like a tricky road to go now
We're opened up to a lot of things. Like a protester using his car to run over innocent people.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

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