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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39116 on: November 08, 2024, 06:34:45 PM »
I'm kind of glad Trump has both groups of congress (presumptively).  It'll be revealing one way or the other.  Either he's not a radical psychopath  or he is and it will be obvious.  The country will overcorrect in 2 years if it's the latter.

The point is, he has no obstacles, and so he has no excuses if things don't work out for the masses.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39117 on: November 08, 2024, 07:22:20 PM »
I think Kamala tried to run on a positive message, but she thought that "I'm not Donald Trump [and I'm not Joe Biden]" was that message. She was wrong (as were her handlers). The message--as you said--needs to be "we're going to do [these] positive things," not "I'm not as bad as that guy."
I'm going to do my "post mortem" on the 2024 election as a response to this.  

I think you have to give Harris and her handlers some slack.  They were thrust into a very difficult position.  As Biden's VP it would have been nearly impossible for her to lean too far into "I'm not Joe Biden" because she was in his administration.  Biden's popularity numbers were bad so running as a continuation of Biden was obviously not a good strategy.  That doesn't leave her with much to work with.  

I saw some ads a few times that I'll refer to as her "closing argument" ads.  One of them closed with "let's get to work" which seemed to me like a rather silly thing for her to say.  That is fine if you are the outsider but she was the sitting VP, saying "let's get to work" just makes me think "ah, what have you been doing?"

On inflation she talked about price gouging.  Maybe I'm too biased to see this from a swing-voter perspective but look, if the price of one thing is high, ok maybe that is price gouging but if the price of everything is high that isn't gouging that is inflation.  

So now I'll back up:
I said a lot of this here before, but I think that Trump made a stupid unforced error back in 2020 but calling Biden "Sleepy Joe" and making an issue of Biden's cognitive decline back then.  All that accomplished was to lower the bar so far that when Biden showed up at the 2020 debates all he had to do was look marginally competent to hurdle over the EXTREMELY low bar.  

IMHO, Biden has been suffering cognitive decline since prior to the 2020 election but back in 2020 it wasn't *THAT* bad.  

Heading into 2024, I believe that Biden's handlers cannot have not known what was going to happen when they put Biden on stage for that debate.  Thus, I think that was a force play.  

Bottom line, what I think happened was this:
Biden's handlers knew that Biden wasn't fit for office but Dr. Jill (or whoever had the most influence on Joe) was unwilling to let go of being First Lady so they were stuck.  Then they made a genius move.  They KNEW the debate would kibosh Biden but they couldn't get rid of him without it so they negotiated a debate in June.  If they'd have had the debate at the normal time they'd have been stuck.  

The problem that created though is that instead of picking a candidate through the normal process of an election they just selected Harris.  I frankly think that Harris is just a bad candidate.  I don't mean this as an ideological argument, I mean it simply as personality/likability.  Now I know that Trump's personality and likability are liabilities for him but that doesn't preclude those things from ALSO being liabilities for his opponent.  From an election, I think the Democrats would have gotten a better candidate.  

Side note:
IMHO, after Biden stepped down, I think that the Democrats should have had an open convention.  There are two advantages.  First, it would have let them see who could organize a campaign on that short timeline and convince people to vote for them.  Second, it would have been exciting TV.  They'd have gotten millions of viewers.  Personally, I watched a grand total of zero minutes of the Republican and Democratic Conventions but if the Democratic convention would have been to decide on a nominee, I'd have watched that!  

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39118 on: November 08, 2024, 07:27:24 PM »
the only chance the Dems had was to not allow Biden to run at all

they should have known his condition and planned for someone else

it's they're own damned fault they lost an election to a guy like Trump

ya can't fix stupid and delusional is even worse
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39119 on: November 08, 2024, 07:30:32 PM »
congratulating a biological man on a year of "girlness" on the one year anniversary of said biological man starting to play dress up and pretend to be a girl. 
I'll bite back. A person who is medically transgender (DSM 5: gender dysphoria) is not "dressing up and pretending" to be a different gender. I don't know specifically--and neither do you--whether Dylan Mulvaney is trans in the DSM sense, but the signs are least strong that she is.

Gender dysphoria is real. That doesn't mean that we should all throw away our human nature that helps us sort who we see into distinct genders, and it doesn't make it appropriate to complain every time someone assumes our pronouns incorrectly--and it also doesn't mean anyone who asks for it should immediately get gender affirming care.

But accusing anyone who is trans of "dressing up and pretending" is a bridge too far.

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39120 on: November 08, 2024, 07:46:04 PM »
I'll bite back. A person who is medically transgender (DSM 5: gender dysphoria) is not "dressing up and pretending" to be a different gender. I don't know specifically--and neither do you--whether Dylan Mulvaney is trans in the DSM sense, but the signs are least strong that she is.

Gender dysphoria is real. That doesn't mean that we should all throw away our human nature that helps us sort who we see into distinct genders, and it doesn't make it appropriate to complain every time someone assumes our pronouns incorrectly--and it also doesn't mean anyone who asks for it should immediately get gender affirming care.

But accusing anyone who is trans of "dressing up and pretending" is a bridge too far.

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria
Of course "she" is a girl, you can tell by looking at "her" pronouns!

https://youtu.be/WID6w4_gtwo?si=M63b2k05ni2fhFrD

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39121 on: November 09, 2024, 05:03:42 AM »
Harris could have won despite the college campus absurdities, the trans stuff, and Dems somehow being on the wrong side of the Israel-Hamas deal, if she'd (actually, if Biden) simply put up some resistance at the border and if she'd have mentioned like 2 things she wouldn't have done that Biden did.  That's all.  She would have won.
.
On a critical note of the Rs, though, I love how we all know for a fact that the VP does basically fuckall, but suddenly when she was the candidate, she's blamed for literally every misstep of the Biden administration.

What movie was it where power isn't lying to the people, but when they know it's a lie and go along with it anyway?  Yeah, that's blaming Harris for a bunch of shit while being an otherwise powerless VP.  It's vapid.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39122 on: November 09, 2024, 08:01:25 AM »
I had a realization more than a decade ago that all election postmortems are just kind of a cope. We don’t know what the world is gonna look like in two and four years.

Parties tend to win down the line after not really “learning” the day after lessons of one specific election loss.

MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39123 on: November 09, 2024, 08:29:55 AM »
The point is, he has no obstacles, and so he has no excuses if things don't work out for the masses.
Wrong - no one right now can figure or factor in the the damage being done by letting in how many millions that are indeed getting housed,free medical and food/gas cards. Had a couple of swipers right in front of me just  last night. Just when are those financial shackles removed? Just the the former Holiday Inn in NYC was costing taxpayers 19,000.00 a week for the illegals new arrivals. And they are paying that to CCP owners - can't make that shit up
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39124 on: November 09, 2024, 08:37:02 AM »
the only chance the Dems had was to not allow Biden to run at all

they should have known his condition and planned for someone else
They knew his condition 4yrs ago they didn't want to take the blow back from it when the ruse was FINALLY called
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39125 on: November 09, 2024, 08:38:54 AM »
got to give just a wee bit of credit to Trump

he didn't do or say anything REALLY inflammatory
at least not week after week

he didn't really stir up the level of hate the public had for him 4 years ago when they came out in record numbers to vote against him
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39126 on: November 09, 2024, 08:39:55 AM »
They knew his condition 4yrs ago they didn't want to take the blow back from it when the ruse was FINALLY called
well, ya gotta take yer medicine sooner or later
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Honestbuckeye

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39127 on: November 09, 2024, 08:41:59 AM »
got to give just a wee bit of credit to Trump

he didn't do or say anything REALLY inflammatory
at least not week after week

he didn't really stir up the level of hate the public had for him 4 years ago when they came out in record numbers to vote against him
It’s interesting.  Trump got slightly less votes- or about the same.  But there were about 14 million less votes against him. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39128 on: November 09, 2024, 08:42:07 AM »
Based on what I've been seeing, there were three big issues that Republicans hammered and Dems didn't really have an answer for. Inflation, immigration, and trans stuff. I'm not sure they really could answer the inflation stuff, it happened. Immigrations and trans issues they probably could have tried to craft a response or plan, but they aren't unified on them at all. When you have no answer on issues voters care about, you lose.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39129 on: November 09, 2024, 08:42:45 AM »
In Trump's first two years before, Congress didn't do that much, and what they did do was hardly exactly what Trump said he wanted.  I expect that to be the case this time as well, Congress will assert some independence and rather slowly fashion legislation that can pass Congress, which means some degree of compromise.  I think.

I also believe inflation has been worse than the CPI or any other metric reports, meaning "real median income" has dropped.  The CPI was "gamed" in the 1990s to underreported inflation.  I don't think we have any realistic indication of what inflation is that "we" experience in the real world.  This is important because so much is slaved to CPI, like SS etc.  People were falling behind, and didn't like it, and Harris promised "more of the same" in effect.  Her notion of ctopping "price gouging" was absurd, and few bought into that.

And I agree all the post mortems can get a bit silly, including my own.  It's akin to losing a football game, "If only the OC had called this play instead of that ...".

I think Trump has two years, which isn't much, and then Congress will flip back.

 

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