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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #38822 on: November 01, 2024, 11:51:04 AM »
If your answer is "well, I guess we have no choice but to align with the folks that think Jews are a pestilence to be eliminated and the cause of all our issues," you can get all the way fucked. Fuck the monster who pushed it, and fuck the weaklings who joined along.

If we need to stand for counter arguments that back that, we're too weak to stand for much.
It was 1920s/1930s Germany. You're acting like the "weaklings who joined along" weren't ALSO anti-Semites. 

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #38823 on: November 01, 2024, 11:52:16 AM »
Yeah, I'm not sure you can say anyone else was running the country.  He didn't keep staff or cabinet members around for long, and there's certainly not much chance he'd listen to anyone else telling him what to do, anyway.

You can certainly argue that he might have run it haphazardly, or poorly, or both... but whatever happened, was coming from him, and not someone else pulling his strings.

Of course, the idea that the president "runs the country" is a bit amiss, anyway.  The legislative branch makes the laws, and the judicial branch adjudicates them.  A president could sit back and do pretty much nothing, and the country would still continue to operate. 
I kind of disagree on this front. 

Even with people moving in and out, the more "running" of the country that a president does take more focus, energy and will from that president. And it just doesn't strike me that he has that kind of focus to really do it. He'll say loud things, bother people and do things that make him feel important, but he never struck me as a guy in there to "do the work." 

And in a lot of ways, as you said, a president is a figurehead as much as anything. But he never gave the impression of rolling up his sleeves and getting elbow deep on much. 

MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #38824 on: November 01, 2024, 11:53:54 AM »
I feel like every President (and probably every CEO) should have someone on their staff--someone trusted and personal--whose sole job it is to call them an idiot when they're being an idiot.
Or a nun who cracks them when they need it,like in the Blues Bros - which these days could get ugly
“I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”― Douglas Adams

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #38825 on: November 01, 2024, 11:54:15 AM »
It was 1920s/1930s Germany. You're acting like the "weaklings who joined along" weren't ALSO anti-Semites.
Oh they were, but it wasn't like everyone was in on grand plans to beat up Jews in the streets and take their property all at once. 

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #38826 on: November 01, 2024, 11:54:47 AM »
Europe by and large has been against Jews for centuries, with very few exceptions.  Germany was in economic distress, which is a think I think topples governments most often when they topple.  I think it likely a lot of "thinking Germans" felt Hitler would moderate his views in time, I know the industrialists did.  They thought they could control him.  The industrialists obviously weren't going to align with communists.  

Then by 1935 or so, Hitler had near univeral support because he seemed to be making things better overall, the fact that a few were being suppressed, well, cost of making an omelett.


MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #38827 on: November 01, 2024, 11:57:35 AM »
As I've said my typical vote here in CA for the Presidency is for the Libertarian candidate. I don't have to worry about voting for the lesser of two evils
That's the ticket I punched the last two X for POTUS.Now I have to go lesser of the 2 evils - sadly
“I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”― Douglas Adams

Honestbuckeye

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #38828 on: November 01, 2024, 12:02:08 PM »
“She’s a radical war hawk. Let’s put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her, OK?” the former president said at a campaign event in Glendale with former Fox News host Tucker Carlson. “Let’s see how she feels about it, you know, when the guns are trained on her face.”
Damn.  What a thing to say.  He sounds more like a Democrat or Dem surrogate then ever.

Maybe he is a faciist or a Nazi or a threat to Democracy or the end of our country as we know it, and must be stopped, or locked up or assassinated.  😂😂
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #38829 on: November 01, 2024, 12:06:53 PM »
I would prefer it if candidates ran on their positions instead of the constant attacks on personnages.

Of course, that would be boring, and they'd lose.  Nearly all ads are negative.

My one "rule" in political ads would be that they cannot name or depict the other candidate, or any of their major supporters.  They could say "my opponent".

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #38830 on: November 01, 2024, 12:12:17 PM »
Solid plan.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #38831 on: November 01, 2024, 12:18:05 PM »
I'm taking the sports car to the golf course and have a few beers

60 degrees here and not many Friday afternoons like this one are left

this political banter is boring
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #38832 on: November 01, 2024, 12:30:39 PM »
I kind of disagree on this front.

Even with people moving in and out, the more "running" of the country that a president does take more focus, energy and will from that president. And it just doesn't strike me that he has that kind of focus to really do it. He'll say loud things, bother people and do things that make him feel important, but he never struck me as a guy in there to "do the work."

And in a lot of ways, as you said, a president is a figurehead as much as anything. But he never gave the impression of rolling up his sleeves and getting elbow deep on much.
Like I said, I don't think he lets anyone tell him what to do.  So, insofar as any "running the country" activities occurred from his office, I have pretty much zero doubt that the ideas and plans were his.  I don't think it required much "rolling up of the sleeves" to make the decisions he made and tell his lackeys to carry them out.  His leadership could be viewed as haphazard, but I don't doubt for a second that it was of his own making.

He most certainly bullied and intimidated a large number of Republicans in Congress into aligning with his views and policies.  And that's about the only kind of influence a president really has when it comes to legislation. He also made many appointments, primarily of people who agreed with or supported his views, so that's another area of influence, where he was demonstrably active.

I don't really know what else you're getting at.  I don't think he was a particularly activist president, but I also don't think that what things he did attempt to enact, were the ideas or plans of anyone else.  Hence, I don't agree that someone else was pulling the strings and "running the country."

If you want to argue that, with as little activity as he enabled, NOBODY was "running the country" I might be able to follow you to that conclusion.



medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #38833 on: November 01, 2024, 12:39:47 PM »
If your answer is "well, I guess we have no choice but to align with the folks that think Jews are a pestilence to be eliminated and the cause of all our issues," you can get all the way fucked. Fuck the monster who pushed it, and fuck the weaklings who joined along.

If we need to stand for counter arguments that back that, we're too weak to stand for much.
That wasn't what they *THOUGHT* they were agreeing to.  

First, they were stuck between allying with the Communists and allying with the Nazis so there were no good options.  

Second, the Communists were a bit more insistent in their anti-democratic refusal to join with others.  Ie, the Communists more-or-less demanded total control whereas the Nazis agreed in principle to a coalition government.  

In theory the Nazis didn't have much control in the initial Hitler Cabinet.  Hindenburg (elderly WWI war hero General) was still President and most definitely NOT a Nazi.  Additionally, the Vice Chancellor, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of Finance, Minister of Justice, Minister of War, Minister of Economics, Minister of Agriculture, Minister of Labor, Postmaster, and Minister of Transport were all non-Nazi's.  The only Nazi's included were Hitler as Chancellor and the Minister of the Interior.  Goebbels and Goring were added soon thereafter to newly created posts.  

The people who made the decisions were in a terrible situation with no good options.  Judging them with the benefit of hindsight isn't fair to them.  At the time they *THOUGHT* that Hindenburg, von Papen (the Vice Chancellor), and the other non-Nazi ministers could keep the Nazis from taking full control or doing anything too crazy.  My point isn't that it worked, it obviously didn't.  My point is that they were constrained by the lack of viable options and at the time this looked like the best bad option available to them.  

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #38834 on: November 01, 2024, 12:50:18 PM »
There is a lesson in there somewhere,.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #38835 on: November 01, 2024, 01:17:45 PM »
Having one good eye and one bad eye is annoying, I'm learning.

I have to go back again Monday, doc said I had a cornea scratch and he wants to ensure it's healing.  My other eye gets fixed on the 20th.

 

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