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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
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Cincydawg · « **Reply #37674 on:** October 05, 2024, 09:14:40 AM »

I'd note (again) that my wife and stepson are immigrants, both are highly educated and productive contributors. Both are now US citizens. The entered legally, with jobs, and had Green Cards for a period of time. Neither was a burden on any tax payer, they both pay/paid taxes.

I doubt many here object to their path. But folks coming in unvetted with no language or trade skills are obviously a very very different group.

utee94 · « **Reply #37675 on:** October 05, 2024, 09:19:10 AM »

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2024, 08:48:47 AM

If they are civil engineers or land surveyors, I say "Come on in!"

We'd have a severe shortage of electrical engineers if American companies hadn't outsourced almost all of our manufacturing and much of our design capability overseas.

Some of that is slowly coming back.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #37676 on:** October 05, 2024, 10:08:35 AM »

I have not found a study on "undcumented" immigration that appears to be "fair and balanced". I did find this one, I'm not able to vouch for it.

The Cost of Illegal Immigration to American Taxpayers 2023 (fairus.org)

At the start of 2023, the net cost of illegal immigration for the United States – at the federal, state, and local levels – was at least $150.7 billion.
FAIR arrived at this number by subtracting the tax revenue paid by illegal aliens – just under $32 billion – from the gross negative economic impact of illegal immigration, $182 billion.
In 2017, the estimated net cost of illegal migration was approximately $116 billion. In just 5 years, the cost to Americans has increased by nearly $35 billion.
Illegal immigration costs each American taxpayer $1,156 per year ($957 after factoring in taxes paid by illegal aliens).
Each illegal alien or U.S.-born child of illegal aliens costs the U.S. $8,776 annually.
Evidence shows that tax payments by illegal aliens cover only around a sixth of the costs they create at all levels in this country.
A large percentage of illegal aliens who work in the underground economy frequently avoid paying any income tax at all.
Many illegal aliens actually receive a net cash profit through refundable tax credit programs.

MaximumSam · « **Reply #37677 on:** October 05, 2024, 10:27:34 AM »

Quote

That study is about "immigration", the topic under discussion here is "illegal" immigration. The two things are quite distinct.

The discussion is immigration. Illegal immigration is a subset of that, describing the people afoul of the various rules and laws that restrict their ability to enter the, stay, and work in the country. Do we find government regulations are generally associated with higher economic output? I don't.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #37678 on:** October 05, 2024, 10:32:12 AM »

I was under the very distinct impression that the discussion here was about the undocumented, not legal immigrants.

That was my point of focus obviously. If anyone here is against legal immigration, I missed it. I think most folks appreciate that often is a positive.

MaximumSam · « **Reply #37679 on:** October 05, 2024, 10:33:24 AM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 05, 2024, 10:32:12 AM

I was under the very distinct impression that the discussion here was about the undocumented, not legal immigrants.

That was my point of focus obviously. If anyone here is against legal immigration, I missed it. I think most folks appreciate that often is a positive.

Medina has said several times that he is against legal immigration because he believes it is a net negative to the country

Cincydawg · « **Reply #37680 on:** October 05, 2024, 10:36:10 AM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 05, 2024, 01:31:49 AM

Your ignorance is exceeded only by your dishonesty.

You lied AGAIN, by inferring that I have said that all immigration for all time is bad. I've said no such thing.

I pointed out the problem of open borders and a welfare state and you . . . Failed to address that point at all.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about folks who come in to this country illegally, open borders, etc. He's obviously not claiming ALL immigration is bad.

I'm pretty sure he has been focused, as have I, on the "undocumented" coming in iin large numbers because the southern border is "porous"

Maybe he posted something differently elsewhere.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #37681 on:** October 05, 2024, 10:39:38 AM »

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 03, 2024, 10:02:19 PM

When did we stop calling the ones invading our country illegals

We all welcome legal immigrants

20 million illegals not so much

LH is clearly talking about the "illegals".

I thought everyone was.

847badgerfan · « **Reply #37682 on:** October 05, 2024, 10:41:12 AM »

MaximumSam · « **Reply #37683 on:** October 05, 2024, 10:41:38 AM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on September 19, 2024, 10:56:05 AM

FWIW:
I am against any immigration that is a net financial drain so that includes most legal immigration.

Here's his position

Cincydawg · « **Reply #37684 on:** October 05, 2024, 01:35:29 PM »

So, he’s against nearly all illegal and a subset of legal. Probably a very small subset.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #37685 on:** October 06, 2024, 09:59:16 AM »

Of course, if immigrants are a net benefit to our economy, his desire is already fulfilled broadly speaking.

I've known quite a few legal immigrants in my life, and all of them were "productive" members of society. They came in the legal way of course, and were generally well educated when they arrived. The ones "sneaking in" rarely are of course. And I understand that some enter legally through amnesty or claims of religious and other difficulties where they lived. That group probably is a "drain" at least initially.

It's a bit weird, to me, that the act of being in the US without legal authorization is not in itself illegal.

FearlessF · « **Reply #37686 on:** October 06, 2024, 08:54:18 PM »

ship em back to the border and kick em out of the bus

I understand shippin them to sanctuary cities but ............

raisin awareness doesn't seem to help

MrNubbz · « **Reply #37687 on:** October 06, 2024, 09:02:44 PM »

Throw the ~~lawyers~~ defense Attorneys out with them

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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

Cincydawg

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

utee94

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

Cincydawg

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

MaximumSam

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Cincydawg

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

MaximumSam

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Cincydawg

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

Cincydawg

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847badgerfan

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MaximumSam

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Cincydawg

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Cincydawg

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FearlessF

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

MrNubbz

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