header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 2648 2649 [2650] 2651 2652 ... 3174   Go Down
Author

Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

 (Read 2993989 times)

medinabuckeye1

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 10636
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37086 on: September 10, 2024, 03:58:04 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on September 10, 2024, 03:36:15 PM
Yeah here in the USA, minivans effectively killed off station wagons, and then SUVs and CUVs have greatly diminished minivans.

Station wagons or "estate wagons" are still fairly common in Europe.  As are the small hatchbacks that are like their Euro-sized versions of CUVs.
Lee Iacocca was a freaking genius.  There were two things about the minivan that made it massively successful at that time.  First was that it was "garageable" in being smaller than a full sized van which obviously all of the Big Three were already offering.  The other thing though was that he also made it off of a car chassis.  The Japanese makes had minivan sized vans but they weren't cars, they were trucks.  They were actually in use as delivery trucks in Japanese cities.  To fulfill that role they were built like trucks with heavier suspensions and RWD.  

Iacocca seems to have foreseen that the buyers/drivers would not be traditionally truck-buying guys stepping down to a slightly smaller vehicle but rather traditionally car-buying "soccer moms" stepping up to a slightly larger vehicle.  As such, one thing that helped the first generation Caravan/Voyager was that they felt and drove like the cars that they were based on.  Chevrolet and Ford missed that memo.  Their Astro and Aerostar were shrunk-down trucks with RWD and heavier suspensions.  They were VASTLY better than the Caravan/Voyager at hauling and towing which is why you saw a lot of Astros and Aerostars in commercial applications versus almost no Caravans/Voyagers in such roles.  That said, overall sales were driven not by plumbers downsizing from a full size van but by "soccer moms" upsizing from a sedan/station wagon and Chrysler lapped the competition with a much more "mom-friendly" van than anyone else had on offer.  

Logged

Gigem

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3376
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37087 on: September 10, 2024, 03:58:50 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on September 10, 2024, 03:33:41 PM
I would not have predicted these trends in 1980, at all.  I was biting on the "peak oil" story at the time, and has was "expensive".  So, mpgs became a priority for me, meaning slow cars and minivans with manual transmissions.  I thought the minivan was a super vehicle type, and probably would have guessed we'd have some smaller minivans by 2020.  EVs?  Nope, GM did have an abortive poor attempt ca. 2000. 

Maybe the "CUV" is sort of the small minivan I might have forecast.  I have found the size to be about right, it's usefully larger than the GTI without being a hog.  The back seat is sittable for adults. 

We didn't have hybrids of course, and turbos were unwieldy things in a few cars that had bad lag.  And today very few cars off manual transmissions, and Cadillac is one of them.
Me and my father in law have been arguing about peak oil for 20+ years.  He predicted it about 2005ish.  I've flipped, and I now believe that essentially we are a long way from peak oil, and that the more expensive oil gets the more we can produce, due to the economics of it.  For example, drilling deeper, exploring areas that are more difficult, and learning how to extract more oil from already producing assets.  Most people don't realize it, but the United States is producing more oil now than ever, and if I'm not mistaken, we're the #1 Oil producing country.  We were always the top 3, with #1 and #2 being Saudi Arabia and Russia.  We just happen to still use more than we produce, which makes us a net importer.  Most of the oil we import comes from Canada.  
Logged

Gigem

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3376
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37088 on: September 10, 2024, 04:00:08 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on September 10, 2024, 03:58:04 PM
Lee Iacocca was a freaking genius.  There were two things about the minivan that made it massively successful at that time.  First was that it was "garageable" in being smaller than a full sized van which obviously all of the Big Three were already offering.  The other thing though was that he also made it off of a car chassis.  The Japanese makes had minivan sized vans but they weren't cars, they were trucks.  They were actually in use as delivery trucks in Japanese cities.  To fulfill that role they were built like trucks with heavier suspensions and RWD. 

Iacocca seems to have foreseen that the buyers/drivers would not be traditionally truck-buying guys stepping down to a slightly smaller vehicle but rather traditionally car-buying "soccer moms" stepping up to a slightly larger vehicle.  As such, one thing that helped the first generation Caravan/Voyager was that they felt and drove like the cars that they were based on.  Chevrolet and Ford missed that memo.  Their Astro and Aerostar were shrunk-down trucks with RWD and heavier suspensions.  They were VASTLY better than the Caravan/Voyager at hauling and towing which is why you saw a lot of Astros and Aerostars in commercial applications versus almost no Caravans/Voyagers in such roles.  That said, overall sales were driven not by plumbers downsizing from a full size van but by "soccer moms" upsizing from a sedan/station wagon and Chrysler lapped the competition with a much more "mom-friendly" van than anyone else had on offer. 
Don't give him too much credit.  He also came up with the K-car.  
Logged

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 31141
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37089 on: September 10, 2024, 04:01:44 PM »
Who came up with the Chevy Astro van?
Logged
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

medinabuckeye1

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 10636
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37090 on: September 10, 2024, 04:03:45 PM »
Quote from: Gigem on September 10, 2024, 04:00:08 PM
Don't give him too much credit.  He also came up with the K-car. 
Nobody likes them but they sold like hotcakes and, along with the aforementioned Caravan/Voyager, kept Chrysler afloat.  
Logged

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 45593
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37091 on: September 10, 2024, 04:14:19 PM »
Lee Iacocca may have been lucky
Logged
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 45593
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37092 on: September 10, 2024, 04:15:16 PM »
Quote from: Gigem on September 10, 2024, 03:58:50 PM
Me and my father in law have been arguing about peak oil for 20+ years.  He predicted it about 2005ish.  I've flipped, and I now believe that essentially we are a long way from peak oil, and that the more expensive oil gets the more we can produce, due to the economics of it.  
Iowa produces more corn when the prices are higher
Logged
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 14539
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37093 on: September 10, 2024, 04:16:26 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on September 10, 2024, 03:58:04 PM
Lee Iacocca was a freaking genius.  There were two things about the minivan that made it massively successful at that time.  First was that it was "garageable" in being smaller than a full sized van which obviously all of the Big Three were already offering.  The other thing though was that he also made it off of a car chassis.  The Japanese makes had minivan sized vans but they weren't cars, they were trucks.  They were actually in use as delivery trucks in Japanese cities.  To fulfill that role they were built like trucks with heavier suspensions and RWD. 

Iacocca seems to have foreseen that the buyers/drivers would not be traditionally truck-buying guys stepping down to a slightly smaller vehicle but rather traditionally car-buying "soccer moms" stepping up to a slightly larger vehicle.  As such, one thing that helped the first generation Caravan/Voyager was that they felt and drove like the cars that they were based on.  Chevrolet and Ford missed that memo.  Their Astro and Aerostar were shrunk-down trucks with RWD and heavier suspensions.  They were VASTLY better than the Caravan/Voyager at hauling and towing which is why you saw a lot of Astros and Aerostars in commercial applications versus almost no Caravans/Voyagers in such roles.  That said, overall sales were driven not by plumbers downsizing from a full size van but by "soccer moms" upsizing from a sedan/station wagon and Chrysler lapped the competition with a much more "mom-friendly" van than anyone else had on offer. 
Yeah, my dad had one of the old Chevy vans like below. It was built on a truck chassis, RWD, but had a full body. Roomy as HELL. It was gigantic. Far more usable than the "SUV" that eventually overtook it, like the Suburban / Explorer. It was a goddamn pig though. Big V8 and drank gas like I drink beer. 

Minivans are fantastic vehicles. The Honda Odyssey that I had when I was with my ex was absolutely wonderful. Easy to drive, easy to get in and out for the kids. Plenty of room. I even hooked up the back seat entertainment screen to a TV player that connected to a USB HDD with a bunch of ripped kid movies on it. Kids were entertained. And as you point out, they're based on a car chassis, so they handle well and get decent gas mileage. 

The only reason that more minivans aren't sold is ego. Because suburban moms think they're lame in a minivan but "cool" in a CUV. And because guys like me, who were buying a post-divorce car that needed to be big enough for my new girlfriend, my 3 kids, and [eventually] a dog, wouldn't be caught dead in a minivan so ended up with an ultra-cool Ford Flex. Which I actually find to be a really functional vehicle that meets all my needs, but deep down inside I know a minivan would have been more functional. 

Logged

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 22261
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37094 on: September 10, 2024, 04:20:06 PM »
Quote from: FearlessF on September 10, 2024, 03:56:02 PM
SUVs and CUVs are glorified minivans.
Actual SUVs built on truck chassis are useful vehicles.  As I've stated before, I actually prefer them for towing, over pickups.  The "U" really does stand for "utility."
Logged

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 14539
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37095 on: September 10, 2024, 04:31:06 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on September 10, 2024, 04:20:06 PM
Actual SUVs built on truck chassis are useful vehicles.  As I've stated before, I actually prefer them for towing, over pickups.  The "U" really does stand for "utility."
Agreed. And while I'm not going to get into an argument with you over what vehicles certain people "need", the growth of the CUV market belies the truth that a lot of people who once said they "needed" an SUV actually don't. They need a taller, roomier, car. 

The people who truly need something based on a truck chassis, truly need something based on a truck chassis. For most, the CUV ends up being a better option. 
Logged

Gigem

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3376
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37096 on: September 10, 2024, 06:50:16 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on September 10, 2024, 04:03:45 PM
Nobody likes them but they sold like hotcakes and, along with the aforementioned Caravan/Voyager, kept Chrysler afloat. 
Yeah, maybe. But also didn’t they borrow a bunch of money from the govt, and then win a bunch of contracts to sell them hummers or something?  I thought it was acknowledged that they pretty much bailed them out both ways. I remember seeing a lot of Kcars, but nobody in my family or friends had one. 
Logged

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 14539
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37097 on: September 10, 2024, 07:07:23 PM »
Quote from: Gigem on September 10, 2024, 06:50:16 PM
I remember seeing a lot of Kcars, but nobody in my family or friends had one.
I inherited my grandma's Chrysler LeBaron Turbo when she finally started failing drivers tests so badly that nobody would allow her to drive. 

POS. 
Logged

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 21788
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37098 on: September 10, 2024, 07:28:25 PM »
I loved my Jeep and now love my hatchback.  The rear folds down flat, so I can sleep in it if needed.  And it holds all my camping gear.  

Does anyone know why a windshield replacement costs $400+ when maybe 5 years ago it was $150?
Logged
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 14539
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37099 on: September 10, 2024, 07:29:52 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 10, 2024, 07:28:25 PM
Does anyone know why a windshield replacement costs $400+ when maybe 5 years ago it was $150?
You really want to tee that one up... For THIS crowd? 
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 2648 2649 [2650] 2651 2652 ... 3174   Go Up
« previous next »
 
Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.
Shadow Box Plaque

Tennessee Country Medallion