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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35154 on: July 26, 2024, 04:34:54 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 26, 2024, 04:25:02 PM
When a major news person (ostensbly) falsifies information, it's rather more significant than when some private citizen makes some claims.  We're discussing the media, not what some real estate "mogul" said about something.

As for holding Trump to account, I'm not sure how that could be done.  He's allowed to say those things.  "WE" are allowed to ignore him.  Or not.
So how did it work out for Trump?
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35155 on: July 26, 2024, 04:37:32 PM »
Obviously, he became President, film at 11.  I'm not sure what the point is.

Politicians lie, often, and usually for some perceived advantage.  Entertainers lie as well, probably not nearly as often.  A news person really should not lie, it's unexpected, folks tend to trust them, Walter Cronkite and all that.  So, when they lie, it's a suprise, upsetting, it makes us unhappy.
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35156 on: July 26, 2024, 04:40:53 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 26, 2024, 04:37:32 PM
Obviously, he became President, film at 11.  I'm not sure what the point is.

Politicians lie, often, and usually for some perceived advantage.  Entertainers lie as well, probably not nearly as often.  A news person really should not lie, it's unexpected, folks tend to trust them, Walter Cronkite and all that.  So, when they lie, it's a suprise, upsetting, it makes us unhappy.
Gonna have to disagree on the idea that we should expect presidents to lie to us and media people to tell us the truth.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35157 on: July 26, 2024, 04:43:44 PM »
Well, I personally expect politicians to lie, often, routinely.  

I have a modest expectation that prominent news reports on TV tell the truth more often than politicians.  When they don't, I hope they are fired.  If they are not, I lose faith in that network (if I had any in the first place).
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35158 on: July 26, 2024, 04:45:25 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on July 26, 2024, 04:21:53 PM
I mean obviously there were different results for Trump and Rather after their frauds were uncovered.
I'm sorry, I can't think of a nice way to say this but this is a serious question:
Are you honestly this stupid or are you just stirring the pot?
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35159 on: July 26, 2024, 04:47:15 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 26, 2024, 04:25:02 PM
When a major news person (ostensbly) falsifies information, it's rather more significant than when some private citizen makes some claims.  We're discussing the media, not what some real estate "mogul" said about something.

As for holding Trump to account, I'm not sure how that could be done.  He's allowed to say those things.  "WE" are allowed to ignore him.  Or not.


Bingo.  Candidates lie, exaggerate , embellish.  Nobody beats Trump, IMHO. 

Fox reacts by being supportive of his policies. 
But you know what they are.  You know what he is going to do.  You can hate it, but you know it.

To me, here is the difference.  The MSM, and Dems, are working FEVERISHLY to cover up what her policies are. What positions she has taken STRONG public stances on.  Where she stands on the right/left political spectrum.  Assignments she has had and the results. 
why? Why do they not want the voting public to know what she stands for.  What she believes in.  Stances she has taken on policy. 

Just like they lie complicity in the great cover up of Biden’s Dimentia- they are now in lock step to “ recreate a false picture of POLICY.   


To me- that is the standard operating model of the left, and their media/ social media. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35160 on: July 26, 2024, 04:48:51 PM »
Rather was forced out at CBS for his disastrous reporting on George W. Bush’s National Guard service, in which he relied on fabricated documents to allege that Dubya got special treatment and that his superiors had been ordered to lie about his record. 

As all the follow-up reporting showed, it was utter nonsense.



I copied that from the NY Post, I forgot the details of it.  To me, that was egregious, and he should have been fired, as he was.  

Now imagine Bush's political opponent said these things.  They say a lot of things, I think "we" should know that by now.  Mansfield claimed Romney? never paid taxes.  He was lying about that, well, OK, he's a politician, it was a campaign tactic.  I think Trump said or hinted that Kamala wasn't a US citizen, or somesuch.  That to would be a lie, nearly as I can determine, and it's from a politician.

Maybe we should hold politicians to a higher standard, fine with me, we'd not have many in office if we did.  But we don't.  We should understand that they lie.

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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35161 on: July 26, 2024, 04:57:30 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on July 26, 2024, 04:45:25 PM
I'm sorry, I can't think of a nice way to say this but this is a serious question:
Are you honestly this stupid or are you just stirring the pot?
LOL, hey, I understand the impulse. But, that is why I'm pushing back on it. The main point, your main point, is that the media lied to everyone and no one could put their trust in them. The Dan Rather thing was some major issue, and there was no going back from it. Well, what happened to Dan Rather? He was canned, and the "major media" has been declining ever since.

Trump also lied, and in fact was doing this Alex Jones stuff before Alex Jones was a thing. It was brought him major appeal to Republican voters, the same voters that you claim care very deeply about being lied to. Trump ended up becoming president on this kind of stuff, and still claims it to this day. Whether he is lying almost seems besides the point, as if the media should be held to a standard in honesty and the president shouldn't.

Why is this so? I know you don't have a good answer. There is no good answer. But to claim I am stupid for pointing it out is silliness to the extreme.
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35162 on: July 26, 2024, 04:58:43 PM »

Quote
Maybe we should hold politicians to a higher standard, fine with me, we'd not have many in office if we did.  But we don't.
Well...some of us don't.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35163 on: July 26, 2024, 05:03:44 PM »
I would be among the first to opine that Trump lies, a lot, often, frequently.  That is one reason I don't support him, at all.  It does me no good, nor him any harm.

I'm glad Rather was fired.  I'd like Trump to be "fired", along with Harris, and Biden, and Obama, and Vance, and whoever else is up there in DC.  My approach is to understand they are going to lie and compensate for it.

If CBS had not fired Rather, I'd never watch them again.  Well, I never watched them anyway, so there is that.  Harris lies, when she can get a word out.  Biden lies often and for no reason.  Obama told the "Lie of the Year" once.  There is no real reckoning for politicians who lie, in general.  One of'em is going to win.
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35164 on: July 26, 2024, 05:05:11 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 26, 2024, 05:03:44 PM
I would be among the first to opine that Trump lies, a lot, often, frequently.  That is one reason I don't support him, at all.  It does me no good, nor him any harm.

I'm glad Rather was fired.  I'd like Trump to be "fired", along with Harris, and Biden, and Obama, and Vance, and whoever else is up there in DC.  My approach is to understand they are going to lie and compensate for it.

If CBS had not fired Rather, I'd never watch them again.  Well, I never watched them anyway, so there is that.  Harris lies, when she can get a word out.  Biden lies often and for no reason.  Obama told the "Lie of the Year" once.  There is no real reckoning for politicians who lie, in general.  One of'em is going to win.
Yes, yes, yes everyone is doing it. No, not really. I don't think that stands up to even the slightest scrutiny.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35165 on: July 26, 2024, 05:06:39 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on July 26, 2024, 04:58:43 PM
Well...some of us don't.

You are the least likely to, based on positions you have taken.   To me- your the epitome of “ ends justify the means”.    What they just did with the Biden cover up not only doesn’t bother you, you love it.  Just like the laptop cover up.  Just like the fabricated stuff they tried to derail Kavanaugh.  

You have no credibility in this area.   Sorry Max.  
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35166 on: July 26, 2024, 05:07:39 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on July 26, 2024, 03:34:39 PM
I guess but it doesn't really change the fact that Alex Jones is not conservative media.

I know many conservatives, my own parents are MAGA, but they don't listen to or believe anything that weirdos like Alex Jones are saying.

Agreed. 

But one might agree that conservatives and conspiracy nutjobs have been sometimes a little closer to each other over time than maybe is reasonable... #pizzagate springs to mind...

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on July 26, 2024, 03:38:01 PM
I think you are improperly assigning blame here.  You've only gone back ONE step. 

The problem started because the MSM that always claimed to be "unbiased" WAS left-biased.  THAT created the problem. 

Look at Talk Radio as a great example.  Rush Limbaugh came along and made TONS of money as a Conservative voice.  Why?  It was because back then that was a MASSIVELY underserved market.  MSNBC have never had Fox's #'s because "Leftist news" IS NOT an underserved market. 

CBS and Dan Rather DID lie about George W. Bush in an attempt to help defeat him.  The pre-internet MSM was heavily left-biased.  The blame lies there. 

As far as where we go from here, I honestly have no idea.  The toothpaste is out of that tube.  I don't think we can put it back. 
Right, but what I'm saying is that they might now be becoming victims of their own success. They hit the underserved market by demeaning the established institutions and trying to replace those institutions with themselves. That playbook worked, so the crazies then came in and started demeaning the established institutions (which now included Fox News and Talk Radio) and installing themselves. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35167 on: July 26, 2024, 05:07:44 PM »
There is no "No not really" in my post anywhere.  Maybe there is a politician in DC who doesn't lie, I don't know who it might be.

I ASSUME they all lie, often, and am surprised if they say something of substance that is truthful.  It does happen, on occasion.
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