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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34412 on: July 16, 2024, 02:15:15 PM »
The BLM riots mostly peaceful protests were downplayed mightily. But that's OK, I guess?
Whataboutism
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34413 on: July 16, 2024, 02:17:25 PM »
That's, uhh, exactly what they did do: https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/08/politics/annotated-text-copy-trump-indictment-dg/

Trump's been doing everything in his power to try to delay that trial until after the election, since (unlike the hush money or GA case) they're federal charges and he can pardon himself.

And now, of course, Trump's lawyers say that SCOTUS' recent decision means he's off the hook anyway. https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-fake-electors-scheme-supreme-court-1919928
yeah I know they brought that case, now let's see them present the evidence at trial and convict him before we say he's guilty of anything.

and that's not exactly all they tried to do...tried blowing January 6 up into something it obviously wasn't and tried pinning that on Trump- which is ridiculous. they tried countless other obvious bullshit trumped up cases in civil, state, and federal courts that should've never been brought- which is ridiculous. And federal cases often take several years to go to trial....hardly see how anyone can blame that all on Trump.

Trump's lawyers can try to say and argue anything...and the SCOTUS' decision about Presidential immunity didn't state a President has complete immunity from all prosecution. That is not what the decision stated at all.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34414 on: July 16, 2024, 02:18:00 PM »
to plunder (a place, such as a town) especially after capture
to strip of valuables 

I wouldn't use the term "sack", though some folks did carry off some stuff.  I think the physical damage inside the building was pretty slight.  But hyperbole reigns supreme on both sides.




Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34415 on: July 16, 2024, 02:20:02 PM »
to plunder (a place, such as a town) especially after capture
to strip of valuables

I wouldn't use the term "sack", though some folks did carry off some stuff.  I think the physical damage inside the building was pretty slight.  But hyperbole reigns supreme on both sides.
no Fro is right. they sacked the capitol. just like the barbarians sacked rome. same thing.

GopherRock

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34416 on: July 16, 2024, 02:21:08 PM »
This I just do not understand.

Look at just about every large city in this country and all you see is disaster at the hands of those who "lead" them.
Perhaps the Republican Party should take a hard look at themselves and why very few in cities are buying what they're selling.

But that would require critical thinking, which is something they seem utterly incapable of.

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34417 on: July 16, 2024, 02:22:32 PM »
The video of police escorting folks around the Capitol is misleading, in my view, they were attempting to corral the protesters and escort them OUT.  In most cases, the doors they were holding open were EXIT doors, maybe in all cases.  The building had already been breached at that point, trying to detain or deter the rioters would have been a bad decision.  And many of the rioters who arrived after the initial breach did indeed just wander around. 

The events seemingly have to be portrayed as ENTIRELY a massive violent insurrection OR just civilians strolling about taking selfies.  Neither is correct in my view.
agree with this. the truth often lays somewhere in the middle. 

that was not an insurrection, but they weren't exactly also just tourists taking pictures. they broke windows and doors, damaged property and trespassed. they were a rowdy crowd that went overboard and got out of control. i think most of them should've been caught and charged with 30 or 60 days in jail, forced to pay fines to repair the property damage- but that's about it. instead many were tried and convicted of insanely trumped up charges and sentenced to several YEARS of imprisonment. 

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34418 on: July 16, 2024, 02:23:51 PM »
Atlanta is doing pretty well, overall, the city, the main problem is a quite large wealthy disparity.  The north is flat out wealthy, and the south by and large is not.

Downtown is having something of a resurgence with some major projects afoot, and midtown is growing like crazy.

The "white flight" that started ca. 1960 has reversed.

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34419 on: July 16, 2024, 02:25:27 PM »
Whataboutism
whataboutism isn't a real word. it's just some stupid term invented/popularized by some dipshit from the UK on his blog on the internet that other dipshits now use. congrats on being a dipshit?

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34420 on: July 16, 2024, 02:25:44 PM »
 but that's about it. instead many were tried and convicted of insanely trumped up charges and sentenced to several YEARS of imprisonment.
I think those sentenced to YEARS all committed violent acts against the LEOs present, causing injury and harm to their persons.

The charges were not trumped up, in my view, some of the sentences did look pretty harsh to me, but many of them pled to those charges.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34421 on: July 16, 2024, 02:30:56 PM »
But to an extent, you can. CD's post shortly before Badge's was not supported by data, but I believe it to be generally and substantially true.

  • Rural: Red
  • Urban: Blue
  • Suburban: Purple


Typically suburban people around the big cities are more liberal than rural people, even if they're not as liberal as people IN the big cities.

As a result, if a red state becomes increasingly urbanized (measured as higher portion of the population living non-rurally, so including the suburbs as well as the cities), that state becomes more likely to turn purple or potentially eventually blue.

I.e. look at Illinois. It's a good example because it's a state with a significantly rural land mass full of farmers, but where ~80% of its population is basically living in the Chicago metropolitan area.

The city of Chicago has 2.6M people. The combined metro area* is close to 10M, or close to 4x the population. The total population is about 12.6M, meaning the rural areas of Illinois are equal to the population of Chicago, so the rural population roughly balances the actual city population itself. If the suburbs were red, or even leaned red, Illinois would be a red state. But it's a solidly blue state.

(* Numbers are quick and dirty here--the "metro area" may include a little bit of NW Indiana, but I think the numbers are close enough for government work.)
Illinois/Chicago is an unusual and difficult example.

For one thing, Chicago is so big that it has some very urban inner-ring suburbs. I think the distinction we are trying to draw here is closer to "urban living" vs "suburban living" than a distinction based on the specific corporate boundaries of the City of Chicago and that is a lot more difficult, also subjective.

Compare Indiana/Indianapolis and Ohio/Columbus: In Indiana the State permitted/encouraged/mandated an effective merger of all of Marion County. In Ohio, Columbus effectively used their water and sewer systems to compel the surrounding areas to annex. Consequently, here is the area of Columbus, Indianapolis, Chicago, Cleveland, and Cincinnati:
  • 368 sqmi, Indianapolis
  • 227 sqmi, Chicago
  • 226 sqmi, Columbus
  • 82 sqmi, Cleveland
  • 80 sqmi, Cincinnati



Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34422 on: July 16, 2024, 02:33:57 PM »
I think those sentenced to YEARS all committed violent acts against the LEOs present, causing injury and harm to their persons.

The charges were not trumped up, in my view, some of the sentences did look pretty harsh to me, but many of them pled to those charges.
a) most of the excessive J6 charges have already been overturned.

b) many of the charges were 10000% trumped up bullshit in which prosecutors bastardized and weaponized the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002 to get their convictions/pleas- a law never intended to be used as it was by J6 prosecutors- it was a bill passed in response to the Enron scandal and aimed at enacting some kind of means of enforcing CEO's/Execs of massive corporations (like Enron) to comply/not obstruct with federal investigations/committees/hearings.

c) some random idiot who stormed the capitol with probably very little money or brains DEFINITELY would never take a plea deal when he's facing insane amounts of charges and decades of jail time and facing down the barrel of the gun and the awesome power that is the US federal gov't. you're right, people would never just take plea deals to lesser charges to make the nightmare end. never.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34423 on: July 16, 2024, 02:43:27 PM »
Let's presume Texas at some point goes purple and then blue.  I agree that would pretty much be the end of Republicanism on the national scale (unless countered by something else major), and this can happen.  California once voted Republican pretty often.

What I think would happen IF Texas went purple is Republican national candidates would become more ... purple.

Is Trumpism the future of Republicanism?  I think not.  Republicans once were the "liberal party" in a sense, Democrats once were a very conservative party, things change as demographics change and public sentiment changes.

Maybe in 40 years, Republicans will be screaming "TAX THE RICH!!!".
It isn't just that, at the same time Democrats would/will/have gotten more blue. 

There tends to be a natural cause and effect here. The party winning trends toward their far wing while the party losing trends toward the middle.

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34424 on: July 16, 2024, 02:45:22 PM »
Perhaps the Republican Party should take a hard look at themselves and why very few in cities are buying what they're selling.

But that would require critical thinking, which is something they seem utterly incapable of.
Well, that sort of contradicts the fact that people are leaving those large cities, right?
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34425 on: July 16, 2024, 02:47:33 PM »
The country has moved in the liberal direction for many decades, with few interruptions.  I expect that to continue.  The increase in size of government seems inexorable, if one views that as a liberal thing.

 

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