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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34384 on: July 16, 2024, 01:21:00 PM »
My point was very simple, Trump attempted more than just some court actions.  You can say they were all fine, whatever, but he tried several other options.


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34385 on: July 16, 2024, 01:23:45 PM »
Ga’head. Name em.

Trump’s phone call with the Georgia secretary of state? Fake electors scheme?

Those are far more legitimate criticisms of Trump and far more serious than January 6, but no one talks about those do they? All they want to talk about are a couple thousand gunless idiots committing property damage and trespassing at the capital. Oh the horror! Oh the Insurrection!
The phone call isn't what you'd call good. If you read the transcript it reeks of desperation, more than anything. 

The fake elector scheme is worse. The entire goal of that was to get the House not to accept real electors, which would cause Biden to not reach the 270 electoral votes in the certification of the vote, throwing the election to the HoR where Trump would win as each STATE gets one vote. 

As was the exhortations on his VP to abdicate his responsibility to certify the vote and to ensure that the electors from the states Trump had lost over and over in the courts wouldn't be counted... Throwing it to the HoR where he'd win. 

As was the pressure placed on Republican Congressmen to object to the certifications of those electors to try to stall/force votes where Republicans might band together and not certify the vote... Throwing it to the HoR where he'd win. 

These are IMHO serious efforts to undermine the democratic process, overturning the will of the people, to remain in power. 

But I'm sure you'll say they're somehow nothingburgers and "look at what Hillary said!" 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34386 on: July 16, 2024, 01:28:47 PM »
Trump got the evangelicals to turn on Pence.

It's nuts.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34387 on: July 16, 2024, 01:29:04 PM »
Mdot has a very credible point here.  Was J6 really overblown from the media ?  I personally know of several people who thought about going up there, but did not.  For what, they weren't really sure, but they just wanted to protest and march in support of Trump.  And as far as I know, none of the rioters used guns while in the capital, even though most of them assuredly own and possess many, many firearms.  Was it really simply a case of 99% of them getting caught up with the few that did intend to do real harm, but they really had no plan other than disruption.
that is correct, none of the "rioters" had firearms. none of them killed anyone. I believe the people that died that day were all "rioters" who died of heart attack, drug overdose, and one woman "rioter" was shot in the neck by Capitol police.

There are many questions. Why was security not beefed up? Why was the national guard not there? And one major question we will likely never get an answer to until 50-60 years down the line when we are all dead bc I'm sure everything they have on this is highly classified- is how involved was the FBI in all this? How much did they know? How many agents or CI did they have on the ground? Did they have any agent provocateurs riling up the crowd? The Director of the FBI refuses to answer a single question about it at all- the exchange in that committee hearing where he was asked a simple question about how many FBI agents were in the crowd and said "I can't answer that" and the Congressman asking the question goes..."IT SHOULD BE NONE"....absolutely beautiful.

Oh and for the record, the FBI does sh*t like that all the god damn time and have done so for YEARS where they straight up set people up, radicalize them, plot the entire thing out, swoop in make a bust and then say "oh look at the crime we're fighting!". Same FBI that lied to the FISA court SEVENTEEN times to gain a surveillance warrant to illegally spy on the 2016 Trump campaign. Pathetic joke of a "law enforcement" agency.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34388 on: July 16, 2024, 01:29:55 PM »
I think it's too early to name many of these observations as trends.

What if the disapora of more conservative voters out of city centers and into the suburbs begins flipping those districts from purple to red?  That's not an impossibility.
Hey, it's possible. I think that even here in California there's been a backlash to the allowed lawlessness in places like LA and SF. I posted a few weeks ago about a bill that would reverse a dollar value limit on shoplifting that was enacted years ago and how the local morning radio show (who live in LA and are fed up with it) were all saying "it's about damn time". 

But I also think that the trend of urbanization turning things more purple and eventually blue has been consistently observed happening over several decades. If that trend is to reverse, I think it will be a big surprise to a lot of people and be something that a lot of social scientists are going to have a lot of debates explaining it. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34389 on: July 16, 2024, 01:32:20 PM »
Why does every J6 convo argue over who died and didn't die?

A mob sacked the US Capitol!
HELLO?!?!

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34390 on: July 16, 2024, 01:33:40 PM »
Sacked?

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34391 on: July 16, 2024, 01:35:35 PM »
Let's presume Texas at some point goes purple and then blue.  I agree that would pretty much be the end of Republicanism on the national scale (unless countered by something else major), and this can happen.  California once voted Republican pretty often.

What I think would happen IF Texas went purple is Republican national candidates would become more ... purple.

Is Trumpism the future of Republicanism?  I think not.  Republicans once were the "liberal party" in a sense, Democrats once were a very conservative party, things change as demographics change and public sentiment changes.

Maybe in 40 years, Republicans will be screaming "TAX THE RICH!!!".

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34392 on: July 16, 2024, 01:36:59 PM »
The phone call isn't what you'd call good. If you read the transcript it reeks of desperation, more than anything.

The fake elector scheme is worse. The entire goal of that was to get the House not to accept real electors, which would cause Biden to not reach the 270 electoral votes in the certification of the vote, throwing the election to the HoR where Trump would win as each STATE gets one vote.

As was the exhortations on his VP to abdicate his responsibility to certify the vote and to ensure that the electors from the states Trump had lost over and over in the courts wouldn't be counted... Throwing it to the HoR where he'd win.

As was the pressure placed on Republican Congressmen to object to the certifications of those electors to try to stall/force votes where Republicans might band together and not certify the vote... Throwing it to the HoR where he'd win.

These are IMHO serious efforts to undermine the democratic process, overturning the will of the people, to remain in power.

But I'm sure you'll say they're somehow nothingburgers and "look at what Hillary said!"
you don't know what I'd say because I haven't said anything. And yes, you're right, Hillary is f*cking AWFUL. An evil vile repugnant ~unacceptable vulgar term for part of female anatomy~ bitch who one day will get hers when she is rotting in hell. :)

The phone call looks very bad but probably wouldn't bear forth any successful criminal charge. The fake elector scheme is very serious. And my stance is if it is true, bring forth the evidence and charge him criminally with an attempted criminal conspiracy. Not bullshit civil cases about interest rates on bank loans he's already paid back in full, complete and utter bullshit trumped up felony charges for paying off a pornstar to keep quiet, or a very questionable classified documents case. 

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34393 on: July 16, 2024, 01:38:14 PM »
Why does every J6 convo argue over who died and didn't die?

A mob sacked the US Capitol!
HELLO?!?!
Um....cause that's KIND of important, is it not? 

Sacked? Like the Vandals sacked Rome? Damn. Are we being lead by barbarian overlords now? news to me.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34394 on: July 16, 2024, 01:38:49 PM »
So Trump tried a lot more things than just court actions.


OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34395 on: July 16, 2024, 01:42:20 PM »
Sacked?
Stormed it.
Gained entry.
Moved about the place with no resistance.
Stole things.
Vandalized it.
.
Yes, sacked.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34396 on: July 16, 2024, 01:43:59 PM »
So Trump tried a lot more things than just court actions.
the initial response was to J6. which is complete and utter bullshit.

he challenged the election in the courts. which is his right.

he possibly was involved in a criminal conspiracy tied to a fake electors plot. he has not been convicted of that. if you have the evidence and can prove the case- then do that. bring forth all the evidence, try him, and win a conviction on that. don't try and charge him with a bunch of trumped up bullshit completely unrelated to that.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34397 on: July 16, 2024, 01:47:19 PM »
He clearly TRIED a lot more things than just court cases.

One can argue none of those things was criminal, fine, that's a separate discussion.


 

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