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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34076 on: July 09, 2024, 10:25:17 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on July 09, 2024, 10:21:37 AM
US would turn Cuba into a f*cking parking lot.
Right, but what about Russia, who hypothetically supplied the missiles to Cuba?
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Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34077 on: July 09, 2024, 10:26:13 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2024, 10:11:34 AM
Of course. What about Russia?
we'd just yell and talk bad about them and sanction them to high heaven. kind of like we are doing right now. i don't think anyone wants to risk a nuclear war. 
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34078 on: July 09, 2024, 10:30:13 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2024, 10:09:05 AM
If Russia armed Cuba with missiles, and Cuba in turn fired them upon US soil (like on my house), what would be the US reaction?
Not sure if it still applies but President Kennedy announced 60+ years ago that:
"An attack by Cubar against this nation or any nation will be viewed by the United States as an attack by the Soviet Union on the United States."

Note 1:
I didn't look this up so the quote is from memory and probably not exact, however, Kennedy's position is accurately covered in what I typed.

Note 2:
I would assume that Russia would be a legal successor to the USSR relative to this policy. 
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34079 on: July 09, 2024, 10:37:47 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2024, 10:18:58 AM
That matters little in my hypothetical.
In your hypothetical, I'm assuming these are conventional weapons, not nuclear? 
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34080 on: July 09, 2024, 10:43:07 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2024, 10:30:13 AM
Not sure if it still applies but President Kennedy announced 60+ years ago that:
"An attack by Cubar against this nation or any nation will be viewed by the United States as an attack by the Soviet Union on the United States."

Note 1:
I didn't look this up so the quote is from memory and probably not exact, however, Kennedy's position is accurately covered in what I typed.

Note 2:
I would assume that Russia would be a legal successor to the USSR relative to this policy.
Forty Years Ago: The Cuban Missile Crisis | National Archives
Forty Years Ago: The Cuban Missile Crisis | National Archives
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34081 on: July 09, 2024, 10:43:22 AM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2024, 10:37:47 AM
In your hypothetical, I'm assuming these are conventional weapons, not nuclear?
Correct.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34082 on: July 09, 2024, 10:51:36 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2024, 10:43:22 AM
Correct.
Then I agree with Mdot (wow, that feels weird to say). We bomb Cuba back into the stone age and we make angry threatening statements condemning Russia. 
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34083 on: July 09, 2024, 10:53:01 AM »
And probably retaliate in non-military ways via sanctions / etc, preventing US businesses from doing any business with Russia, that sort of thing. (Which I think we're already doing due to Ukraine, but in this hypothetical perhaps we're going to assume that never happened.)
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34084 on: July 09, 2024, 11:00:10 AM »
Any installation of shorter ranged ballistic missiles in Cuba would probably elicit a strong response before any were fired, verbal and threatening at first, and then at some point, military, taking them out, but causing minimal collateral.

I presume the missiles would be roughly akin to our ATACMs, 190 miles range, about a 500 bb warhead.  
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34085 on: July 09, 2024, 11:01:23 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2024, 10:30:13 AM
Not sure if it still applies but President Kennedy announced 60+ years ago that:
"An attack by Cubar against this nation or any nation will be viewed by the United States as an attack by the Soviet Union on the United States."

Note 1:
I didn't look this up so the quote is from memory and probably not exact, however, Kennedy's position is accurately covered in what I typed.
As noted above, what I wrote was not an exact quote, @847badgerfan provided a link that DOES include the exact statement:
Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2024, 10:43:07 AM
Forty Years Ago: The Cuban Missile Crisis | National Archives
The portion of Kennedy's statement that I was trying to recall was:
"It shall be the policy of this nation to regard any nuclear missile launched from Cuba against any nation in the Western Hemisphere as an attack by the Soviet Union on the United States requiring a full retaliatory response upon the Soviet Union. . . ."

So Kennedy's statement was limited to nuclear missiles.  Also, in the transcript, Kennedy says "Cuba" but if you listen to him say it in his Bostonian dialect, it was "Cubar" like I typed.  
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Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34086 on: July 09, 2024, 02:22:26 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2024, 10:51:36 AM
Then I agree with Mdot (wow, that feels weird to say). We bomb Cuba back into the stone age and we make angry threatening statements condemning Russia.
Congrats on finally being right on a political/foreign policy topic! Must feel weird for ya! :)
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34087 on: July 09, 2024, 02:25:47 PM »
We hear almost nothing about Cuba these days.  I saw some small Russian fleet headed that way a few days back.  My very limited experience in Havanna could be summed up, they are in bad shape.

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34088 on: July 09, 2024, 08:11:38 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on July 09, 2024, 10:21:37 AM
US would turn Cuba into a f*cking parking lot.

Last time the Russians tried that in 1962 it nearly led to all-out nuclear war and the end of mankind. Probably the closest we've ever been to nuclear war.

Amazes me that people don't understand what we'd do if shoe was on the other foot. You really think we'd allow Mexico or Brazil to enter into a military alliance with China or Russia and let them build military bases and house troops anywhere near us, install missile systems anywhere near us, station naval warships and aircraft carriers anywhere near us, do joint military anywhere exercises near us? LOL.
Why do we expect them to be okay with our having done it?
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34089 on: July 09, 2024, 08:13:51 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 09, 2024, 07:42:32 AM


Take "assault weapons" for example, a majority of voters want them banned thinking it would reduce crime by a lot, when that is factually incorrect, by a lot.


The "news" often takes an issue and exaggerates it for eyeballs and clicks and that influences how people think, which influences how politicians pretend to "do something".
You're agreeing with me here
I don't think anyone believes banning assault weapons would reduce overall crime by a lot.  They think it would decrease mass shootings.  That's it.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier
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