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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33096 on: June 17, 2024, 11:16:04 AM »
Great Father's Day movie:


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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33097 on: June 17, 2024, 11:17:09 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 17, 2024, 10:57:01 AM
LoL.

Clearly you lack an intelligent answer, as already pointed out:
Max, this was @OrangeAfroMan level deflection, deceit, and inability to carry on an intelligent conversation. You are better than that.
Sorry medina, you deserved that one. You cherry-picked a single incidence of an immigrant apprehended for committing a violent crime, while strawmanning Sam's argument. He's never said that immigrants don't ever commit violent crimes. He *has* said that there is evidence that they do so at lower incidence as native-born citizens, but that's a different argument. 

His response, while flippant, was in the same spirit as your "argument" IMHO. 
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33098 on: June 17, 2024, 11:18:12 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 17, 2024, 11:11:45 AM
Ok, I did overstate your position.

That said, the article that @847badgerfan linked was just another crime resulting from immigration like 9/11, the earlier WTC Bombing, and literally 1,000's of crimes every week. Are you ok with that? Is it worth it?
Here is a great example:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-attorney-announces-federal-charges-against-47-defendants-250-million-feeding-our-future

Have a look at the defendant list. The vast majority sure don't sound like multi-generational Minnesotans to me. (In case you don't know, Minnesota was mostly populated by Central Europeans and Scandinavians).
Well, here is another data point. Research shows immigrants commit crime at a rate less than native born peoples, many times significantly lower. Immigrants also tend to settle in poorer, higher crime areas, so they lower crime rates just by existing. Lowering crime rates is a plus IMO.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33099 on: June 17, 2024, 11:36:10 AM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 17, 2024, 11:17:09 AM
Sorry medina, you deserved that one. You cherry-picked a single incidence of an immigrant apprehended for committing a violent crime, while strawmanning Sam's argument. He's never said that immigrants don't ever commit violent crimes. He *has* said that there is evidence that they do so at lower incidence as native-born citizens, but that's a different argument.

His response, while flippant, was in the same spirit as your "argument" IMHO.
I already copped to overstating his position.
Quote from: MaximumSam on June 17, 2024, 11:18:12 AM
Well, here is another data point. Research shows immigrants commit crime at a rate less than native born peoples, many times significantly lower. Immigrants also tend to settle in poorer, higher crime areas, so they lower crime rates just by existing. Lowering crime rates is a plus IMO.
First:
What I know about studies is that for the right price you can get a study that says whatever you want it to say.

I don't have Koch/Soros (R/D) money so I can't buy competing studies. Unfortunately, the state and the monied interests in BOTH parties benefit from high levels of immigration because they get cheap labor and don't have to compete.

More unfortunate is that nobody is spending big $ to defend working Americans who have been seeing their real incomes drop since the flood began.

Rising Income Inequality is probably the worst consequence of the flood of unskilled and semi-skilled immigrants.

Back to crime:
Your study is, in any case, irrelevant. We are stuck with native crooks. We are NOT stuck with foreign crooks. The acceptable level of immigrant crime is NOT "same as natives", it is ZERO. We have NO NEED for additional criminals. Why are we willingly importing them?
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33100 on: June 17, 2024, 11:47:58 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 17, 2024, 11:36:10 AM
I already copped to overstating his position. First:
What I know about studies is that for the right price you can get a study that says whatever you want it to say.

I don't have Koch/Soros (R/D) money so I can't buy competing studies. Unfortunately, the state and the monied interests in BOTH parties benefit from high levels of immigration because they get cheap labor and don't have to compete.

More unfortunate is that nobody is spending big $ to defend working Americans who have been seeing their real incomes drop since the flood began.

Rising Income Inequality is probably the worst consequence of the flood of unskilled and semi-skilled immigrants.

Back to crime:
Your study is, in any case, irrelevant. We are stuck with native crooks. We are NOT stuck with foreign crooks. The acceptable level of immigrant crime is NOT "same as natives", it is ZERO. We have NO NEED for additional criminals. Why are we willingly importing them?
Would you rather live in a community of 100 with 5 murders a year or a community of a thousand with 10 murders a year?
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33101 on: June 17, 2024, 11:51:12 AM »
0 would be perfect.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33102 on: June 17, 2024, 12:13:23 PM »
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33103 on: June 17, 2024, 12:19:50 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on June 17, 2024, 11:18:12 AM
Lowering crime rates is a plus IMO.
One more thing, specifically in response to this:

No, the goal isn't to lower the crime rate. The goal is to lower crime.
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33104 on: June 17, 2024, 12:21:53 PM »
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U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33105 on: June 17, 2024, 12:23:04 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on June 17, 2024, 11:47:58 AM
Would you rather live in a community of 100 with 5 murders a year or a community of a thousand with 10 murders a year?
It depends. 

If I'm picking communities to relocate to, obviously the one with 1,000 and 10 murders per year.

If we are talking about my existing community of 100 and you are asking if I want to change it by importing 900 people including 5 murders, I'll pass.
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33106 on: June 17, 2024, 12:27:38 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2024, 11:51:12 AM
0 would be perfect.
This is my response when someone asks me what vegetables I'm cooking
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33107 on: June 17, 2024, 12:31:22 PM »
Midtown has around 25,000 residents.  The population during the day is of course much higher, workers, visitors, etc.  When there is a murder here, it makes the news because it's quite rare, 1-2 in a year usually.  Of course, there are more violent crimes than 1-2 unfortunately, around 40-50 agg assault in a year.

An estimated 85,000+ individuals currently live in, work in, or visit Midtown daily. So far this year, only 5 crimes that are considered “stranger on stranger” have occurred in Midtown. The overwhelming number of violent crimes in Midtown and the city involve people that knew each other or a fight that escalated.

So, the place is pretty safe for an urban area.  The construction workers are heavily Hispanic.
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33108 on: June 17, 2024, 12:34:55 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 17, 2024, 12:23:04 PM
It depends.

If I'm picking communities to relocate to, obviously the one with 1,000 and 10 murders per year.

If we are talking about my existing community of 100 and you are asking if I want to change it by importing 900 people including 5 murders, I'll pass.
That is not unusual. For example, people tend to have pretty low regard for the education system, but tend to give pretty high marks to their own schools. People tend to like their neighborhoods and be against them changing, which is why zoning ordinances and HOAs have become popular. This is despite the fact that housing shortages are very real and drive up inflation. So, yes, I understand not wanting your neighborhood to change - it is a very common response that drives a lot of policy.

Which is definitely my main point - our immigration policy is based a lot on feelings and not a lot on data.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33109 on: June 17, 2024, 12:50:13 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 17, 2024, 12:19:50 PM
One more thing, specifically in response to this:

No, the goal isn't to lower the crime rate. The goal is to lower crime.
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