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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

 (Read 3035452 times)

MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32536 on: June 06, 2024, 04:03:17 PM »
Not in the long run, not by a long shot.  Welfare, healthcare (including free ER visits), depressing wages, need I go on?If you actually believe this, the Koch brothers (and MANY others) money is well spent. 

Great for the uber-wealthy.  They get cheaper nannies.  The rest of us get reduced access to government services and higher taxes. 
The Fox News talking points don't stand up to reality. Many immigrants don't qualify for most public services, especially ones requiring a social security number. They are also more likely to start their own business and work long hours, which is generally good for society. Their crime rates are lower than native born Americans, which makes their neighborhoods safer. 

Let's see, populations of people who work hard and don't commit crime and generally do it without support of the government - well, there is something we must stop. But at least by spending money stopping it, we get increased inflation and all become poorer. What a policy!

MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32537 on: June 06, 2024, 04:04:54 PM »
I was born during the Carter administration, though can't say I remember much about it. Though GW has to be the worse in my lifetime by a mile. 

MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32538 on: June 06, 2024, 04:05:19 PM »
BTW Costco had Vienna Beef hot dogs - never saw them there before but picked up a pack.

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32539 on: June 06, 2024, 04:42:45 PM »
Did you buy the poppyseed buns?
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32540 on: June 06, 2024, 04:51:03 PM »
The Fox News talking points don't stand up to reality. Many immigrants don't qualify for most public services, especially ones requiring a social security number. They are also more likely to start their own business and work long hours, which is generally good for society. Their crime rates are lower than native born Americans, which makes their neighborhoods safer.

Let's see, populations of people who work hard and don't commit crime and generally do it without support of the government - well, there is something we must stop. But at least by spending money stopping it, we get increased inflation and all become poorer. What a policy!
LoL

I haven't watched Fox in years but last I saw they were nearly wholly owned by the pro-immigration, cheap-labor lobby so that criticism is laughable.

Your cheap-labor lobby talking points, however are the ones that fail any serious analysis.
1) Immigrants don't qualify for "most" public services. LoL. Only the illegal ones are even possibly excluded but even there the exclusion is partial because free ER Medical care, for example, us given regardless of immigration status. Additionally, "sanctuary" cities and states ignore restrictions.

Even Biden's fellow Democrats have appealed to him to reduce the flow due to cost:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/nyregion/adams-migrants-destroy-nyc.html

When the Democrat Mayor of HEAVILY Democratic NYC is quoted in the left-wing NYT calling this mess a "migrant crisis" and saying that it will "destroy NYC"

"Mr. Adams, a Democrat in his second year in office, has clashed with leading members of his party as New York City has struggled to provide housing and services to the migrants"

So you can either believe the Democrat Mayor of a Democratic City as quoted in a paper that hasn't seen a Republican they liked in 150 years or we can all believe Max.

2) More likely to start a business and work long hours.
This would be great if it were true. The "studies" claiming this are bought and paid for by the cheap labor lobby and utilize unrealistically low denominators that fail to account for literally millions of uncounted illegals. Furthermore, they lump in legal immigrants from developed countries who obviously do come here for greater business opportunities with immigrants from undeveloped countries who come for the free stuff.

3) Crime:
First, the acceptable level of immigrant crime isn't "less than natives", it is zero. Any crime committed by an immigrant is a failure of immigration policy because we DO NOT need more criminals. We have plenty of native criminals that we are stuck with.

Second, immigrant crime is VASTLY higher than what the lying government and press admit to. Ohio is a low immigration state. I live in one of the lowest immigration counties in Ohio and our local courts spend thousands monthly on translators. If there is enough immigrant crime in my county to require that many translators then I know that the level in the Big cities and closer to the Mexican border is obviously higher.

None of your "facts" stand up. Think for yourself, don't trust what the cheap labor (Republican) and more voters (Democratic) lobbies are telling you.

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32541 on: June 06, 2024, 04:58:27 PM »
Russian disinformation. :)
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32542 on: June 06, 2024, 05:25:36 PM »
LoL

None of your "facts" stand up. Think for yourself, don't trust what the cheap labor (Republican) and more voters (Democratic) lobbies are telling you.
I feel bad for you.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32543 on: June 06, 2024, 05:40:02 PM »
Russian disinformation. :)
Oh we've got one of those already, don't need any more.

MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32544 on: June 06, 2024, 07:02:07 PM »

Quote
1) Immigrants don't qualify for "most" public services. LoL. Only the illegal ones are even possibly excluded but even there the exclusion is partial because free ER Medical care, for example, us given regardless of immigration status. Additionally, "sanctuary" cities and states ignore restrictions.
Most illegal immigrants aren't going to qualify for social security. The great shame of our immigration policy is apparently someone with a massive head wound may get treated in a hospital? Is that a serious concern? 



Quote
So you can either believe the Democrat Mayor of a Democratic City as quoted in a paper that hasn't seen a Republican they liked in 150 years or we can all believe Max.
You should believe me. Because the number one thing that New York (and everyone else) is asking for is to allow work authorizations for people seeking asylum. The overall problem is the "paternal" people, who like you view the immigrants as helpless lambs who must be fed and clothed and couldn't possibly contribute to society. Despite extreme evidence that is is utter nonsense, it is what drives a lot of our immigration policy. 


Our actual policy is to require people to wait six months before asking for work authorization after filing for asylum, which itself can take quite a long time. Our actual federal law is that people seeking asylum aren't allowed to work and take care of themselves for roughly a year, and that is if they are lucky. If you are thinking that is bananas, that's because it is. Utterly bananas.


Quote
This would be great if it were true. The "studies" claiming this are bought and paid for by the cheap labor lobby and utilize unrealistically low denominators that fail to account for literally millions of uncounted illegals. Furthermore, they lump in legal immigrants from developed countries who obviously do come here for greater business opportunities with immigrants from undeveloped countries who come for the free stuff.
This is again, completely imaginary, and based on nothing. All the studies are wrong, and people from underdeveloped countries can only come here for free stuff. 


It's utter nonsense. Think of the hassle it would take to be from one of these countries, the expense of trying to move, and the complete lack of security in making the trip. The only people willing to even attempt that are the ones who are willing to work hard and take risks and have a lot of the same traits as people who start their own businesses. Immigrants self select into being entrepreneurs, which is why all the studies say the same thing, financed by "cheap labor" or not.


Quote
First, the acceptable level of immigrant crime isn't "less than natives", it is zero. Any crime committed by an immigrant is a failure of immigration policy because we DO NOT need more criminals. We have plenty of native criminals that we are stuck with.
This is the kind of "just so" story that belongs on Twitter or X or whatever. Does having one accident mean our traffic policy is a failure? Does having one crime mean the police are a failure? Of course not. Immigration policy, like all policies, balances a lot of different things. My point is that we spend a lot of needless time and money on immigration policy that both doesn't work as we want and also makes us poorer. Thinking the policy has failed because a criminal exists makes no sense unless the only possible factor in immigration is to account for criminals, and of course it is not.



Quote
Second, immigrant crime is VASTLY higher than what the lying government and press admit to. Ohio is a low immigration state. I live in one of the lowest immigration counties in Ohio and our local courts spend thousands monthly on translators. If there is enough immigrant crime in my county to require that many translators then I know that the level in the Big cities and closer to the Mexican border is obviously higher.
This dovetails with everything else - all the facts and studies are wrong. Instead, if any immigrants have committed a crime, our policy is a failure. And we know immigrants have committed crimes because courts hire interpreters. For one, of course immigrants have committed crimes. For two, courts also handle non crime issues, like divorces and child custody and people suing each other. The Ohio Supreme Court has access to interpreters a goal, and for good reason. Courts don't function well when no one understands each other.



Quote
None of your "facts" stand up. Think for yourself, don't trust what the cheap labor (Republican) and more voters (Democratic) lobbies are telling you.
What are my facts to do in the face of massive imagination?

MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32545 on: June 06, 2024, 07:08:52 PM »
Did you buy the poppyseed buns?
Didn't see those. Though honestly I'm happy without a bun

GopherRock

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32546 on: June 06, 2024, 07:12:52 PM »
If a source is telling you that the government and media are lying to you all the time, they should be roundly ignored.

I know that gets rid of most talk radio, but that's a net positive.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32547 on: June 06, 2024, 07:30:50 PM »
I'll never understand poppyseed bread products.  What do they add?  They just fall off and/or get stuck in your teeth.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32548 on: June 06, 2024, 07:31:25 PM »
Fun trivia:  Name the last RB to be chosen #1 in the NFL Draft.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32549 on: June 06, 2024, 07:33:37 PM »
Fun trivia:  Name the last RB to be chosen #1 in the NFL Draft.
Without looking up, just off the cuff... Adrian Peterson?

 

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