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@Volbrigade/oU
You seemed nice in your initial post.  Now I see that's gone.

WTF did you expect when you posted this in response to his prior post?

  
This isn't hard. 
It's silly.

Replying to this post from the weather/environment thread here because this gets more into political economy rather than actually having anything to do with the environment...

Jeb Bush did away with emissions testing in Florida. Too expensive ($50Mil/year) and the State met all Federal clean air standards.

At the time did you run into a sort of "Baptist and the bootlegger" fight against him doing that? 

Idea that the Baptists want to ban booze for moral reasons and the bootleggers profit wildly when booze is illegal, so while the two would never see eye to eye in general, they are both in favor of booze being illegal. 

I'd think ending emissions testing would piss off the environmentalists who would predict we're all gonna die from pollution, with an entrenched lobby of emissions testers who know they'll be out of jobs if the testing is no longer mandatory--whether that's independent testers (like in CA) worried about revenue, or whether they're a state-owned enterprise perhaps having some sort of public sector union fighting for them. 

Would love to know how that played out...

Ohio had some 300 feet blue law, and there was a nice restaurant inside that zone near a church, they couldn't serve alcohol until noon on Sunday, or something.  I think that law was banned.  North Carolina and some other states have "ABC" stores that sell hard liquor, you can't get it elsewhere.  Here, the Krogers can't/don't either, but private liquor stores abound.  There is a good one near me, I think the prices are all the same.  The liquor stores don't see any food items, but they sell beer/wine.

My buddy who owned the wine shop told me the Ohio laws were beyond arcane and bizarre.  He had to get one license called a "tasting license" and then another one that enable on premise consumption, and had to put up a railing around the area where it was legal.  Most places have open container bans.  The one here was dropped during COVID and I never heard if it came back.

I blame the religious freaks

Thanks for the tag, @OrangeAfroMan .

Sorry to hear the conversation’s over.  Breakin’ up is hard to do…

I’ll even graciously defer from pointing out it would be impossible for you to keep up…

I’ll just address your main point — such as it is — while leaving your pointless — and baseless — allegations aside.


Can’t think of one.

That’s why I joined the convo.  To concur with the derision of “religion”.  As I mentioned earlier — all are false.  They all have faith in the wrong things — e.g., human sacrifice, to appease some “god”.  That applies to secular faith issues, as well (M2M; and seculars have their own “sacrament” — abortion on demand).  I'll bet you my annual salary that believers get more abortions per capita than atheists do. 
As I mentioned.  I find myself having to repeat myself a LOT to secular Whateverists.  They have programmed, ingrained, indoctrinated patterns of thinking that are nearly impossible to work around.  Hardened, narrow ideologies that are nearly impossible to penetrate.  I had to read this twice...you're suggesting there's secular indoctrination with narrow ideologies?!?  This is precisely backwards.  You're describing religion, of which your faith belief is a part of (not apart from).

“Faith is only as good as its object.”

That faith in that rusted old Corvair, that it’ll get you across the country? Maybe not so good.

That faith in that stripper or porn star that you’ve been dating, that she’ll remain faithful to you?  Highly doubtful.

But faith in things we know to be true has value.  Agreed?

Faith that the hammer you drop from a 10-story building will hit the ground?  Pretty well-placed.  Faith that it won’t injure anyone in the process?  A little shaky.

So.  What we want is truth.  Is it not?  So that we can put our FAITH in it?

The question, then, is:  does God exist?  A LOT depends on the answer to that question.  Everything, in fact.  All other questions — what is He like?  What does He want?  Why did He make all this?  What are we supposed to do? —

derive from the answer to the first question.

There’s only two ways God could reveal His existence to us:

directly.  Or indirectly.

Now you will deny that He’s ever revealed Himself directly.  Fine.

But any reasonable person can assess His existence by indirect means.  The Cosmological argument.  The Teleological Argument…

Summed up:  for there to be a Creation, there’s got to be a Creator.  The only question is — what IS it?  you asserting everything was created doesn't make it so

Science can’t tell us.  As I explained here, on a Christian facebook group, to a professed Christian who said:



I’m with science, as well. Along with its handmaidens, reason and logic.
They can only be properly employed within the context of informed FAITH. Else they are doomed to culminate in error.
Logic says that “everything that HAS A BEGINNING must have a cause.”
Logic also states that the universe had a beginning. If it were infinitely old, it would be uniformly cold, at absolute zero. And “no further ‘work’ could be done.”
“Science” expresses this truth in the various Big Bang theories — all of which have insurmountable problems, addressed by fabricated, ad hoc solutions.
People of faith assign the CAUSE of the universe to God.
“Science” has nothing to say on this matter. Science is the systematic, analytical study of Nature — space, time, matter (that God created, wink). It has nothing to say about a “Cause” that lies outside of that Nature.
What we refer to as the secular model of “Evolution” — the idea that living microbes emerged from non-life, in a universe necessarily billions of years old, in order to accommodate this process by “natural”, uniformitarian means —  that isn't evolution, it's abiogenesis
has been exposed to be scientifically invalid and logically impossible. There is not enough time or bandwidth to go into why, here. There are many excellent information ministries that can be accessed for that purpose (CMI, AIG, ICR). Simply put: even the “simplest cell” is far too complex, and requires far too many “chicken or egg” conundrums for it to have arisen by “natural”, mindless, random processes. Or to have climbed any fictitious “evolutionary ladder” (by persistently undiscovered processes) in order to arrive from microbe to microbiologist. Yet the entire M2M paradigm — including the cosmological setting in which it takes place — is nothing more than an irrational rationalization to provide an explanation of our existence that excludes that of God. Or, even more irrationally and absurdly, insists that even if God exists, it makes no difference to “scientific” observations and theories.  argument from incredulity (fallacy)
Perhaps even more irrationally, compromising Christians embrace this paradigm, that all of us have been conditioned and programmed to accept from infancy by the education/media/gov’t nexus. It is the “intellectual” atmosphere that we breathe. And dissent from it is not allowed.
You therefore essentially have professing Christians who are apologists for the M2M fallacy. They merely smear a thin and unconvincing “God did it that way” veneer over it.
For those with the intellectual courage to question and challenge their lifelong secular indoctrination you're joking here, right?? , it quickly becomes apparent that the Biblical source of origins and history is the ONLY explanation that accords with God’s gifts of “Science”, logic, and reason. if you were raised in Indonesia, you'd sing a different tune

I'll believe in the very first god that provides evidence it exists.
@Volbrigade/oU

I didn't even know they did it until I moved here, so I have no idea how it played out here.

Florida was much more purple in those days than it is now.

There are no liquor bans here, unless maybe some local thing, which I don't know.

What I don't like is having to go to two stores for booze and food. Grocery stores cannot sell sprits - only beer and wine. That's weird to me.

Don't you have to go to the liquor store to buy beer in Chicago? 

I remember trying three different gas stations there, none had beer. 

This is one helluva thing......believers citing the indoctrination of secular ideas.  I've seen it all now.  

One thing you can say about all of those evils in your image there, only the church starts them so young.  How noble.