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Topic: Retirement / What am I working for?

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847badgerfan

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Re: Retirement / What am I working for?
« Reply #210 on: Today at 10:51:39 AM »
If you just barely edged into it, it would hardly matter.
Correct.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Retirement / What am I working for?
« Reply #211 on: Today at 11:19:20 AM »
If you get into the 32% tax bracket by say $1,000, your extra tax payment would be 32% of the thousand less 24%, or another 8%, or $80.




847badgerfan

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Re: Retirement / What am I working for?
« Reply #212 on: Today at 11:26:22 AM »
Correct. No big deal. Now, if you get in at over $100K, that's real money.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Retirement / What am I working for?
« Reply #213 on: Today at 11:26:57 AM »
going from 24% to 32% would suck

I think
Not really. You understand the concept that if you're single and you make $200K, that not the entire $200K is taxed at 32%, right? The first 191,950 is taxed at the lower rates shown there. Only the $8050 between $191,950 and $200,000 is taxed at 32%. 

So going from an AGI of $190,000 to $200,000 would increase your annual tax bill by $3,044 but would put an additional $6,956 in your pocket. 

Making a higher income is pretty much universally good, even if you get bumped up into a higher tax bracket. 

EXCEPT when we look at things like this:

Depends on how far and deep you dip in.

We would have to get well into the 37% bracket to convert everything and that is NOT happening on my watch.

We will go right up to the top of the 24% barrier and will keep doing so until we are done.

In this case Badge is not "earning" more money via his job, so it's not like he's contemplating whether or not he wants a raise. But these conversions get counted as income, so he is making a choice to do them now or to defer them to later. 

Which is why it's best to only do as much each year as necessary to remain in the 24% bracket. Pulling forward everything else and bumping him into the next bracket just gives more money to the taxman while NOT actually benefiting him. Since it's merely a conversion from one form of investment to another and doesn't have to happen in 2024, it makes sense to do them at the lowest possible tax rate. 

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Retirement / What am I working for?
« Reply #214 on: Today at 11:36:53 AM »
going from 24% to 32% would suck

I think
The proper comparison of Badge's situation would be something like this... I think you're in sales, right?

Let's say you're getting to the very end of the year, and you've had a really good year. You're RIGHT on the border of that 24/32% split. In fact, we'll say that you're actually at $191,949.99 in 2024 income. You have a $20,000 commission check coming to you. You know that due to market conditions (or whatever), you're probably not going to have as good of a year next year. 

You have a choice between taking that commission check on Dec 31 2024 counting as this year's income, or taking it on Jan 1 2025 and counting it as next year's income. In this case you would choose to defer it until Jan 1. If you take it Dec 31 you'll be taxed at 32% on that money, and giving $6,400 to the IRS. If you take it Jan 1--and don't earn over 191,950 in 2025--you'll be taxed 24% on that money, giving $4800 to the IRS. You save $1600 in taxes by deferring it to the next tax year. 

But these types of situations are unusual. In most cases, when you make more money, it's a good thing even if you end up in a higher tax bracket. 

847badgerfan

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Re: Retirement / What am I working for?
« Reply #215 on: Today at 11:40:55 AM »
It's also important to consider your earning power. 

Let's say you have a $1 million in an IRA. Let's say you're making 20 percent on that. So, in a year, you'd have $1.2 million.

If you do a conversion and say lose $200K to taxes, now you have $800K to invest. In a year, at 20 percent, you'd have $960K.

You are short $240K.

It's a tough balance.

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Retirement / What am I working for?
« Reply #216 on: Today at 11:44:31 AM »
It's also important to consider your earning power.

Let's say you have a $1 million in an IRA. Let's say you're making 20 percent on that. So, in a year, you'd have $1.2 million.

If you do a conversion and say lose $200K to taxes, now you have $800K to invest. In a year, at 20 percent, you'd have $960K.

You are short $240K.

It's a tough balance.
True, but if you have the same tax rate, if you wait and do the conversion on $1.2M next year after you've made that gain, they'll take that exact same $240K in taxes.

But if the conversion on $1.2M bumps you into a higher tax bracket or Congress raises taxes, they'll take >$240K in taxes. 

 

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