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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40138 on: November 22, 2024, 10:40:15 AM »

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If you are alleging that the case against Smollet was "stupid" you are so biased that you can't see straight.
I'm saying the case is stupid in that the facts are stupid. He was stupid, there was no victim, no one was hurt. So we get this stuff about how "society" is hurt, which is usually a good clue that no one was. In any event, criminal prosecutions cost money and time, and politicians should be judicious on when they occur. Here, they resolved the case, then reopened it and wasted everyone's money and time.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40139 on: November 22, 2024, 10:40:31 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on November 22, 2024, 10:30:40 AM
Hammering employers for failing to verify is probably sufficient in most cases.  Then a lot of the rest will just "self-deport". 
That is one approach, though my sense is most of "them" work "under the table", for cash, etc., like guys hanging out outside Home Depot.  I'm sure some work in places like chicken processing plants, but they likely cobble together some sort of birth certificate that the company doesn't "inspect" very carefully.  They probably has an SS number from somewhere.  Maybe they apply for one and get it from government, I don't know.

Then you have farm workers, many of whom are here legally, under the H2A farm worker visa program.  
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Temp430

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40140 on: November 22, 2024, 10:40:51 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2024, 10:20:47 AM
I'm struggling to understand how any "mass deportation" is feasible.  I'm sure we'll hear about it more, but whether it gets into the tens of millions ... I don't think so.  I suspect "they" will have some highly publicized deportations of hundreds, thousands maybe, and then it sort of dies away as a thing.  Tens of millions?  I don't think there is any chance at all.

For one thing, under current law as I understand it, just BEING here is not illegal, even if you over stayed your visa, or snuck on one time.  Then there is the issue of determining who is here "illegally", I don't know how they can do that.  Sure, for those who ran afoul of other laws, have at it.

I would favor a different approach.
President Eisenhower loaded hundreds of illegal aliens at a time onto rust bucket cargo ships and dropped them off in Veracruz.  I believe it was part of "Operation Wetback."  Over 1 million were deported and the point being, it's been done before.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40141 on: November 22, 2024, 10:48:00 AM »
I still don't understand how ICE can determine if Juan is actually here illegally, and has the power to deport Juan if he hasn't broken any other laws.  You can crack down on companies no doubt, but Juan won't want to go back to wherever even if he struggles to find work here.
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bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40142 on: November 22, 2024, 10:49:31 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2024, 09:59:31 AM
Stupid on the part of the person who committed the crime, yes. Faking a hate crime to incite division is very serious. You don't seem to mind this, which is problematic to me.

The only vendetta was his. He faked a crime because his career was tanking. This got him on TV and a lot of dumb people, including the woman who just lost to a reality TV host, rallied behind him.
But prosecuting becuase of that second part isn't "applying the law." It's applying vibes. 
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FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40143 on: November 22, 2024, 10:55:06 AM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on November 22, 2024, 10:05:18 AM
Well, it was a lot less serious than what Trump did, and plenty of people don't mind that. 
this is a problem
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FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40144 on: November 22, 2024, 10:56:49 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2024, 10:40:31 AM
I'm sure some work in places like chicken processing plants, but they likely cobble together some sort of birth certificate that the company doesn't "inspect" very carefully.  They probably has an SS number from somewhere.  Maybe they apply for one and get it from government, I don't know.

meat packing - Bingo!
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FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40145 on: November 22, 2024, 10:58:06 AM »
A Texas official, who this week offered the incoming Trump administration a 1,402-acre plot of land to build "deportation facilities," says other parts of Texas near the border could be offered up in a similar fashion.

"Absolutely -- I have 13 million acres, if any of them can be of help in this process, we're happy to have that discussion," Texas Land Commissioner Dawn Buckingham told ABC's Mireya Villarreal in an interview.

The Texas General Land Office purchased the plot of land from a farmer in October originally to facilitate Texas' efforts to build a border wall. Together with this land, the state office owns about 4,000 acres in Starr County, about 35 miles from McAllen, Texas.

"My office is fully prepared to enter into an agreement with the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or the United States Border Patrol to allow a facility to be built for the processing, detention, and coordination of the largest deportation of violent criminals in the nation's history," Buckingham wrote in a letter addressed to President-elect DonaldTrump, earlier this week.
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bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40146 on: November 22, 2024, 10:59:47 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on November 22, 2024, 10:03:48 AM
It certainly isn't cheaper in the long run. The Cook Crook County Taxpayers paid for ridiculous amounts of OT because Foxx stupidly bought Smollet's ridiculous story hook-line-and-sinker so they had to scour the area for the attackers.  That costs LOTS of money and not prosecuting Smollet sufficiently just encourages more of the same. 

I get the double-jeopardy thing but:
  • Smollet was never truly in "jeopardy" the first time since he had a politically favorable "prosecutor", and
  • Allowing said politically favorable "prosecutor" to drop the charges was a travesty of justice. 

Hate Hoaxes should be prosecuted harshly because they don't just impact an individual, they impact society.  They are an effort to divide people and stoke hatred. 

The encouragement theory is usually a weak one. There hasn't been a massive rash of hoxes and that was more than half a decade ago. 

Whether he didn't have the vibe of jeopardy, he had enough of a process that jeopardy attached. I'd safely bet that if any of us went through even the part of a prosecution he did, we wouldn't be like "well that was free and easy." (Not a defense of him, but an acknowledgment we wouldn't want our rights removed because of vibes)

We was as a society don't give two and a half shits about stoking hatred. We've got a bunch of well to do comfortable adults and when it comes to these topics we fire off hatred and division like a hobby. If that was actually bad, we've behave better, and we don't.
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40147 on: November 22, 2024, 11:02:48 AM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on November 22, 2024, 10:49:31 AM
But prosecuting becuase of that second part isn't "applying the law." It's applying vibes.
Do you remember the initial outrage from this fake? Do you remember the denial in the media as the hoax became unraveled?

Had this occurred after the BLM riots, Chicago would have burned.

Carry on.
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40148 on: November 22, 2024, 11:03:15 AM »

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We was as a society don't give two and a half shits about stoking hatred.
Trump and company spread a hoax about Haitian immigrants eating pets in Springfield. Supporters "proved" the claim by posting a picture of a random black guy in Columbus holding a goose. The only thing Jussie did different was go to the cops.
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FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40149 on: November 22, 2024, 11:07:57 AM »
2 wrongs don't make a right

fighting fire with fire in cases like this is wrong
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40150 on: November 22, 2024, 11:09:23 AM »
Trump’s mass deportations would bring economic disaster

This is from MSNBC, which usually is good for a laugh and little else, but much of this piece looks accurate to me.
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FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40151 on: November 22, 2024, 11:11:11 AM »
well, that all depends on who and how many are deported

a mass is not always 1 million

I've read stories of mass shootings were 2 or 3 people were injured
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