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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
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Cincydawg · « **Reply #36204 on:** August 20, 2024, 12:34:59 PM »

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 20, 2024, 12:32:17 PM

a) the real story you and everyone seems to miss in regards to the laptop was the "51 intelligence agents" writing and signing a letter saying the laptop was just Russian disinformation- with no evidence or anything backing those ridiculous claims up.

This is not accurately reflecting what the letter claimed.

Mdot21 · « **Reply #36205 on:** August 20, 2024, 12:36:44 PM »

Quote from: GopherRock on August 20, 2024, 08:39:20 AM

He doesn't need to. A jury of his peers has already done so.

hahahaha

MaximumSam · « **Reply #36206 on:** August 20, 2024, 12:43:28 PM »

Quote

a) the real story you and everyone seems to miss in regards to the laptop was the "51 intelligence agents" writing and signing a letter saying the laptop was just Russian disinformation- with no evidence or anything backing those ridiculous claims up. #consirpiacytheorists....and then Biden campaign actually pushing that obvious non-sense, and then the corporate legacy media actually regurgitating that obvious lie. propaganda at work. like Chomsky said, a foreign dictator would jizz in his pants if he the propaganda apparatus the US gov't has. paraphrasing a bit there, but the point stands. when other countries are propagandized they know they are being gas lit. when it happens here, the complete and utter fucking morons in this country however actually believe it. sadly.

Here's a quote from their "propaganda."

"We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement -- just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case."

Who the fuck could care about that? Whining is half of the Trump playbook and this was just more of that. Most people don't have the slightest idea who any of the people who wrote that letter are, what they said, or what they thought. But it was some sort of terrible thing that they thought it. Pathetic. Rudy Giuliani held a press conference in a landscaping parking lot because he was confused about the name of it. Of course people are suspicious of his competence. He's an idiot.

Quote

b) that dopey charges coming from you is rich, considering you seem to cheer on the ridiculous charges at Trump....including that asinine charge and conviction in NY....talk about the definition of dopey charges. And for the record Hillary was never charged with anything. And the woman was running a god damn private email server (in a bathroom of all fucking places)- as acting US secretary of state. are you really telling me they shouldn't have investigated that? do you understand the insane security risks she was putting the Obama administration and the country at? and the complete disregard for protocol and US law she was displaying? what is your argument here? that she should've just been allowed to break the law and no one look into it? it's absolutely INSANE to me that nothing happened to her over this. not even some kind of slap on the wrist or a revocation of her security clearance. she requested it be revoked years later in "protest"....LOL.

Well, I've generally been very dubious of the charges on Trump and the investigation of Hillary. I thought the "investigation" of Hillary was disgraceful, not rooted in the law or any sort of public need. But it was very much the most clear cut example of the "Deep State" influencing elections on their whim. But of course, the big "Deep State" opponents always make an exception when they go after Democrats. Sometimes the Deep State is good, they say.

Mdot21 · « **Reply #36207 on:** August 20, 2024, 12:46:48 PM »

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2024, 07:08:45 PM

For me, the trying in 2020 is the issue. Not even so much the lawsuits. We saw lawsuits in 2000. Sometimes you have to go to court. But after 60 cases where only 1 got a ruling in his favor, it was over.

It was more that when everything else completely failed, and it was clear that he lost, he continued to push. The fake slate of electors. Pressuring Pence to not certify. Pressuring Republican lawmakers to try to contest the electors. Pressuring for ANYTHING that would throw the election into the HoR.

And then when all that failed, just making a few statements that suggested the rally attendees that he just happened to assemble not far from the Capitol, the wonderful patriots who had assembled gallows to hang Mike Pence, go down there to the Capitol and "if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country any more".

And then has spent the last 4 years continuing to claim the election is stolen. And when asked, in the national debate, if he'd accept the results of the election, said “If it's a fair and legal and good election, absolutely.” Which, for anyone who knows Trump, knows that means "If I win, I'll accept it. If I don't, it must not be fair and legal." Just like Trump was stating a couple weeks ago how wonderful his poll numbers were looking, because he was ahead, but now he and Vance are claiming that all the polls are fake, because they're not.

I think this is a pretty good case of why the man probably isn't fit to run for President again. There was definitely very questionable and inappropriate despicable behavior on his part- but at the end of the day, the Republican primary voters never left his side....and he's now the nominee.

I guess I'm just not that worried he could actually do anything if he lost this time- because last time he lost he was actually in power as a sitting President- and threw a hissy fit and none of the fuckery he tried like pressuring Pence and trying to hint at the dude at GA to find votes- didn't work. He doesn't really have any actual power over government right now as a nominee.

And having said all that, at the end of the day the Pence stuff does seem a bit overblown to me. Trump's idiot lawyer was telling him that Mike Pence had constitutional authority that Mike Pence did in fact not have. Pence knew that the constitution did not give him any power to just throw out election results- the only authority it gives of the VP is to count Electoral College votes. That's it. Pence said yeah, I don't know who is telling you I can just do this....but I don't have that authority dawg....that's not true.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #36208 on:** August 20, 2024, 12:50:57 PM »

I think Democrats have a greater fear obviously that Trump wins of course. If he loses, I agree he can do little that is really frightening, maybe stir up some civil unrest which won't last much. I personally don't think Trump is very good at "getting things done". He talks about stuff, but when it comes time to do the work, he seems to be absent, and has a history of alienating would be allies.

Mdot21 · « **Reply #36209 on:** August 20, 2024, 12:55:08 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 20, 2024, 12:34:59 PM

This is not accurately reflecting what the letter claimed.

oh yes, it absolutely fucking is. they all dismissed Hunter Biden's laptop as not being real and being Russian disinformation campaign...with ZERO hint of even a single fucking shred of evidence for their preposterous claims. And they used weasel words to say that....and said this laptop has all the hallmarks of Russian disinformation....but we don't actually have proof of that. And of course the useless media ran with that obvious bullshit....."51 US intelligence operatives say it's Russian disinformation!"

and what was also not being discussed about that disgraceful shameful despicable letter is that 4 of the signees were active CIA contractors at the time.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #36210 on:** August 20, 2024, 01:02:50 PM »

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 19, 2024, 09:05:34 PM

I really dont see anything wrong with that answer
Trump is not in the habbit of giving away his rights and to commit to saying the election is fare ahead of time is possibly waving any objection which he has a right to do if he sees it that way

Im going to paint your house would you commit to paying me now no questions asked

I dont think so

I know you think it's impossible that Trump is going to lose. But indulge me in that little hypothetical for a quick second, and answer this:

What do you think the odds are, regardless of any evidence, that if Trump loses he'll claim the election was rigged and unfair?

My view is there's a 99.44% chance that he's filling Truth Social with claims it is rigged before dawn on November 6th, LONG before it's even possible to amass any evidence.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #36211 on:** August 20, 2024, 01:09:55 PM »

If Trump loses, I'd say it's 100% sure he'll claim it was rigged. He may claim that if he wins by a narrow margin, sat 300 EVs. He'd say he really won an overwhelming victory except for cheating.

I also think if he loses, he won't be able to do much about it.

Gigem · « **Reply #36212 on:** August 20, 2024, 01:11:58 PM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 20, 2024, 09:01:30 AM

"probably"? LoL.

Look, I'm not saying it is the end-all, be-all but there is an important reality to understand here:

Hunter's activities are at best extremely sleazy/shady. Viewed in the best light, Hunter effectively traded on and made a substantial amount of money based on being the son of the VP. That doesn't conclusively make even Hunter let alone Joe guilty of criminal corruption but that isn't my point here.

My point is that when you see people on the right refusing to accept election results you HAVE to view it in this context. The media has been lying to us for generations.

The media buried the Hunter Biden information. Facebook literally censored it. It was hidden as best as they could. If that had been a Republican it would have been BLARED from the megaphone.

Then those same players want to turn around and tell us "Biden won, not irregularities, nothing to see here" and expect us to believe them without a doubt.

Given this context, you can't blame anyone for on the right for refusing to believe the media.

Now here is the problem that creates:
It is why Alex Jones has a large following. Once the people who are supposed to tell you the truth about what is going on have lost all credibility, ANYTHING becomes possible. The media abdicated their responsibility and that created a vacuum that ended up being filled by Alex Jones among others.

This also relates to the immigration issue. The media push studies showing how great immigration is for us. These are obvious lies. Adding unskilled laborers to an economy that is already awash in unskilled laborers is obviously detrimental and the media are lying.

This just screams at me. The MSM media, almost 100%, lean left or far left. Why do you expect them to cover all candidates equally? So we're supposed to believe them on one thing, and when they get caught in a lie, whoops. Sorry, now let me get back to telling you these other things that are 100% true.

Nobody ever voted for Kamala for President. She is literally hand-picked by the DNC powers that be, not the people, to be their candidate. They tried to shove it down our throat for 4 years that Joe was competent, he was not. And now they're shoving a bunch of bullshit about Kamela when she hasn't done shit, and if nothing else, made things worse.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #36213 on:** August 20, 2024, 01:14:38 PM »

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 20, 2024, 12:46:48 PM

I think this is a pretty good case of why the man probably isn't fit to run for President again. There was definitely very questionable and inappropriate despicable behavior on his part- but at the end of the day, the Republican primary voters never left his side....and he's now the nominee.

I guess I'm just not that worried he could actually do anything if he lost this time- because last time he lost he was actually in power as a sitting President- and threw a hissy fit and none of the fuckery he tried like pressuring Pence and trying to hint at the dude at GA to find votes- didn't work. He doesn't really have any actual power over government right now as a nominee.

Exactly. While I think Sam is correct that if he loses he's going to engage in a ton of hissy fits and a LOT of lawsuits, I don't think he's going to be successful.

I worry about what his supporters might do, of course. Like the guy I saw at the Luke Combs concert in Phoenix wearing the "TRUMP 2024 OR CIVIL WAR" shirt. My guess is the guy was just a garden variety blowhard who thought that was a great way to make an edgy statement, but you can imagine that those of us who value American democracy have gotten a little jumpy since Jan 6 2021.

But as you say, if this is evidence that he's probably not fit to run for President, shouldn't it scare you just a LITTLE bit what he might do if he wins?

847badgerfan · « **Reply #36214 on:** August 20, 2024, 01:18:52 PM »

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2024, 01:14:38 PM

Exactly. While I think Sam is correct that if he loses he's going to engage in a ton of hissy fits and a LOT of lawsuits, I don't think he's going to be successful.

I worry about what his supporters might do, of course. Like the guy I saw at the Luke Combs concert in Phoenix wearing the "TRUMP 2024 OR CIVIL WAR" shirt. My guess is the guy was just a garden variety blowhard who thought that was a great way to make an edgy statement, but you can imagine that those of us who value American democracy have gotten a little jumpy since Jan 6 2021.

But as you say, if this is evidence that he's probably not fit to run for President, shouldn't it scare you just a LITTLE bit what he might do if he wins?

There are too many checks and balances for him to do much of anything.

utee94 · « **Reply #36215 on:** August 20, 2024, 01:19:50 PM »

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2024, 01:14:38 PM

Exactly. While I think Sam is correct that if he loses he's going to engage in a ton of hissy fits and a LOT of lawsuits, I don't think he's going to be successful.

I worry about what his supporters might do, of course. Like the guy I saw at the Luke Combs concert in Phoenix wearing the "TRUMP 2024 OR CIVIL WAR" shirt. My guess is the guy was just a garden variety blowhard who thought that was a great way to make an edgy statement, but you can imagine that those of us who value American democracy have gotten a little jumpy since Jan 6 2021.

But as you say, if this is evidence that he's probably not fit to run for President, shouldn't it scare you just a LITTLE bit what he might do if he wins?

Not really, because as I've stated many, many, MANY times, we've already seen what Trump does when he's in office, and it's not particularly threatening and the world kept on spinning regardless.

I realize you have some fear that suddenly he's changed, but I don't, and I don't think many others share your fear. Why would he do anything differently this time? I think it's more realistic to expect he'll maintain his status quo of being a loud-mouthed blowhard who doesn't actually get much done, rather than fear he'll change the person he's been for decades and THIS time really get in there and make some changes.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #36216 on:** August 20, 2024, 01:19:53 PM »

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2024, 01:14:38 PM

But as you say, if this is evidence that he's probably not fit to run for President, shouldn't it scare you just a LITTLE bit what he might do if he wins?

As I said, my OPINION is that Trump just likes being President. He didn't seem to DO much the first time except preen, and I don't expect much a second time either.

He will sign stuff Congress sends him and probably alienate half his cabinet. He doesn't seem to understand what is involved in getting stuff DONE. I'm very conflicted about who I HOPE wins, other than "NEITHER!!!!", but one will win. I doubt Harris will be very effective as President either. She'll be "handled" the way Joe was.

Hillary was the one who scared me, really, she is smart and does know how things work.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #36217 on:** August 20, 2024, 01:20:55 PM »

Quote from: utee94 on August 20, 2024, 01:19:50 PM

Not really, because as I've stated many, many, MANY times, we've already seen what Trump does when he's in office, and it's not particularly threatening and the world kept on spinning regardless.

I agree.

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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

Cincydawg

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

Mdot21

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MaximumSam

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Mdot21

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Cincydawg

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Mdot21

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betarhoalphadelta

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Cincydawg

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Gigem

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betarhoalphadelta

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847badgerfan

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utee94

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Cincydawg

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Cincydawg

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